Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

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Matt in Birdham
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:34 am

donchiquon wrote: What concentration of starsan do you use for the purge water? I don't fancy using 30ml (at the recommended sanitising concentration) each time! Can you use a weaker concentration?
I am using iodophor because I am also too tight to use starsan :) Just a "no rinse" dose, which is still 30ml or so in 20l but its cheaper! I am doing all of my initial sanitation which the usual starsan, so this is just belt and braces but feels better than putting plain water in.

What connection have you set up on your FV? You could just screw a male 1/4 hose barb on there directly, and silicon from that to a barbed disco. I have a C&G attached to my FV tap, so the bit I have bought (C&G type D) lets me quick connect to that and have the 1/4 barb screwed into it, which then has the silicon connected to disco. Or it will do when it arrives!

Today I am going even crazier and am trying a full LODO mash - Brewtan B, Sodium Meta and Ascorbic Acid in the mash, pre-boiled water and a floating mash cap. It will be interesting, if nothing else..

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Jocky
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Jocky » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:19 am

Matt in Birdham wrote:
donchiquon wrote: What concentration of starsan do you use for the purge water? I don't fancy using 30ml (at the recommended sanitising concentration) each time! Can you use a weaker concentration?
I am using iodophor because I am also too tight to use starsan :) Just a "no rinse" dose, which is still 30ml or so in 20l but its cheaper! I am doing all of my initial sanitation which the usual starsan, so this is just belt and braces but feels better than putting plain water in.
I wondered about the supposed 'no rinse' concentration of iodophor and did some research. It seems that it is ok for sanitising the water, but I'm very sceptical about it being able to sanitise any equipment. So a spray with starsan first is a good idea, and at least then your weak iodophor solution won't wash any nasties back in.

Given that starsan solution is quite stable in low alkalinity water, another option would be to use a starsan solution and push it out into another keg for storage. Then when you're ready for the next beer you push that out into another keg. You can probably get a lot of use out of one starsan solution (providing you always have a spare keg to store it in).
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Rhodesy » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:24 am

Jocky wrote:
Given that starsan solution is quite stable in low alkalinity water, another option would be to use a starsan solution and push it out into another keg for storage. Then when you're ready for the next beer you push that out into another keg. You can probably get a lot of use out of one starsan solution (providing you always have a spare keg to store it in).
This is what I do which I find works well

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by jaroporter » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:46 am

Jocky wrote:
I wondered about the supposed 'no rinse' concentration of iodophor and did some research. It seems that it is ok for sanitising the water, but I'm very sceptical about it being able to sanitise any equipment.
what did you find that made you sceptical? from all i've read it seems very effective at norinse concentrations
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by jaroporter » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:53 am

back on the transfers for a minute, it's looking good. are you guys priming/purging air from your transfer tubes, or is that an accepted too small to care about amount?

EDIT: just looked at that presentation and see it mentioned there. i wonder what an easy and effective way of doing this is though.. ?
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:27 pm

Matt in Birdham wrote:I am using iodophor because I am also too tight to use starsan :) Just a "no rinse" dose, which is still 30ml or so in 20l but its cheaper! I am doing all of my initial sanitation which the usual starsan, so this is just belt and braces but feels better than putting plain water in.

What connection have you set up on your FV? You could just screw a male 1/4 hose barb on there directly, and silicon from that to a barbed disco. I have a C&G attached to my FV tap, so the bit I have bought (C&G type D) lets me quick connect to that and have the 1/4 barb screwed into it, which then has the silicon connected to disco. Or it will do when it arrives!

Today I am going even crazier and am trying a full LODO mash - Brewtan B, Sodium Meta and Ascorbic Acid in the mash, pre-boiled water and a floating mash cap. It will be interesting, if nothing else..
Thanks Matt. Just thinking about the iodophor water purge process.....I usually pour my gelatine into the keg, then hang my keg hops in, and finally purge with CO2. Wondering how I would make this work the water purge method. Maybe I could hang the hops, fill with water, purge, and then use a funnel to pour the gelatin in through the beer-in line before I hook it up to the FV?...

I think the full LODO might just be the road to madness :lol: Once you start I'm not sure where you stop. I've just been reading this guys take on it http://www.winning-homebrew.com/low-oxygen-brewing.html and it's given me a headache thinking about all the changes and tweaks I'd need to make. I was hoping to brew a second version of the Dechutes Freshly Squeezed clone today but it's going to have to wait until Tuesday.

I have a 1/2" female thread on the FV, but I'd like to use one of my 1/2" barbs on it so that I can easily switch to bottling once the keg is filled. If I can get hold of a 1/2" to 1/4" hose joiner then I can just pull off the 3/8" line with the joiner attached and plug my bottling wand into the 1/2" silicone hose. Did you manage to get a stainless one?

Good luck with the LODO mash - let us know how you get on!
Last edited by donchiquon on Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:29 pm

jaroporter wrote:back on the transfers for a minute, it's looking good. are you guys priming/purging air from your transfer tubes, or is that an accepted too small to care about amount?

EDIT: just looked at that presentation and see it mentioned there. i wonder what an easy and effective way of doing this is though.. ?
This time around I de-pressured the keg through the black disco with the "beer-in" line attached and then plugged it into the FV.

I guess you could always plug the beer line into the FV first and then drain off a little beer into a bucket through the black disco before connecting it to the keg.
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:06 pm

donchiquon wrote: I have a 1/2" female thread on the FV, but I'd like to use one of my 1/2" barbs on it so that I can easily switch to bottling once the keg is filled. If I can get hold of a 1/2" to 1/4" hose joiner then I can just pull off the 3/8" line with the joiner attached and plug my bottling wand into the 1/2" silicone hose. Did you manage to get a stainless one?

Good luck with the LODO mash - let us know how you get on!
I just screwed a male 1/4 barb into a female 1/2 inch (both 1/2BSP thread). So I suppose it is stainless, but not super elegant!

Beer still ongoing - about to pitch the yeast. A strange day so far, I may put a post in the brew day forum later.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:07 pm

INcidentally, I have given up on gelatin for the moment, whilst I work out this pressurised transfer thing. I am thinking about buying a 150ml syringe and going in through the PRV once beer is cold in keg!

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Rhodesy » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:55 am

Following this thread with interest as its a concept I would like to try. Are any of you planning a brulosophy type experiment and compare side by side whereby one using this new method and another using the 'standard' kegging method?

In any case I think I will add the extra regulator and Soda Stream set up to my never ending wanted list.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:36 pm

Rhodesy wrote:Following this thread with interest as its a concept I would like to try. Are any of you planning a brulosophy type experiment and compare side by side whereby one using this new method and another using the 'standard' kegging method?

In any case I think I will add the extra regulator and Soda Stream set up to my never ending wanted list.
Difficult one to answer from my own experience, as I am only 2 beers in (and only drinking one of them).
I have had a feeling for a while that slight oxidation has been a negative factor in some of my beers, and put it down to cold crashing/transfer to keg. Just to be clear, I am not talking about overt oxidation characteristics like cardboard/sherry/vinegar, but I think oxidation is not a binary thing - there is a continuum, with probably most of the early/slight changes being much less noticeable/obviously caused by oxidation (although I have had a truly cardboard beer as well). The more I read about some of these oxidation effects the more I found some things that resonated with me and some of my beers - an occasional slightly harsh metallic bitterness and cloying crystal notes being two in particular. Also the fact that a couple of recent beers tasted better going into the keg than coming out, and the general problem of diminishing hop aroma after a few weeks. If a general tightening up of process on the cold side wrt O2 can help with those, then it will definitely be worth it, especially as now I have the kit the actual extra work involved is minimal.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:32 pm

Today I rigged up the cylinder to the dump valve and used the same method to rouse the yeast with CO2...worked a treat!
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:15 am

I've now ditched the soda stream and have run a length of 3/16 line from one of my manifolds to a separate low pressure reg which I've screwed to the fridge. I then run the line into the fridge.

I also thought I'd try the Starsan keg purge given that if I always transfer to another clean keg the cost will be minimal in the long run. I'll just check the pH every now and then.

I transferred a Resin DIPA clone that I've had fermenting for 3 was yesterday, having used the same CO2 rig to rouse the yeast (once) and then the hops (4 days in a row). The transfer was about 7 mins and without the gelatin preparation the whole process is now quicker than my old transfer routine.

How's the LODO brewing going Matt?
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:32 pm

donchiquon wrote:I've now ditched the soda stream and have run a length of 3/16 line from one of my manifolds to a separate low pressure reg which I've screwed to the fridge. I then run the line into the fridge.

I also thought I'd try the Starsan keg purge given that if I always transfer to another clean keg the cost will be minimal in the long run. I'll just check the pH every now and then.

I transferred a Resin DIPA clone that I've had fermenting for 3 was yesterday, having used the same CO2 rig to rouse the yeast (once) and then the hops (4 days in a row). The transfer was about 7 mins and without the gelatin preparation the whole process is now quicker than my old transfer routine.

How's the LODO brewing going Matt?
I'm finding the sodastream OK for now - I've done 4 transfers with it, and have weighed it a couple of times and it looks like I'll get ~10 from it, so about a quid a go. Not ideal, but that advantage is that I can store the whole lot in the fridge and at least the cylinders are easy to replace at the supermarket.

I am finding that not using finings at all after cold crashing is leaving beers cloudy for a little longer than I would like - the first couple have dropped completely clear now, but it took 3-4 weeks instead of the usual 7-10 with gelatin. Not that I care that much about clarity, but a bright beer is always nice, especially the lighter coloured ones. So for that reason I did fine the most recent one which I kegged a couple of days ago and have bought a new toy to try and keep the O2 out:

Image

The way I did this one was to leave it a couple of days in the keg, then depressurise, unscrew the PRV and turn the gas back on at about 10PSI and squirt the gelatin in. This could perhaps be done better during kegging, maybe injecting through the gas in disco with a bit of gas running, after having purged the keg? Seemed to work well enough yesterday though.

Too early to say on the LODO :) Have done 3 with some nods towards it (although if it truly is "all or nothing" in the mash, then I probably missed). The last two were yeast scavenged prior to dough in, with ascorbic acid, SMBM and Brewtan B in the mash. Hard to say much at this point, especially with so many other changes in the system (lodo on cold side, mainly), but at least some of the effects seemed to be apparent during mash (no smell, for example).

One thing I will say about lodo on the cold side is that a very hoppy citra bomb (3 floyds clone) is still very fresh and hoppy now, 6 weeks after kegging.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by jaroporter » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:05 pm

just something i was thinking today, kinda fits in with all of this minimising cold side oxygen exposure, is that some (many? most?) winemakers will "sparge" (push through) their wines with an inert gas like argon or nitrogen. this has the effect of knocking the oxygen/co2 out of it.
basically thinking that after a transfer to keg, actually hooking up the out line to co2 gas and bubbling co2 through the beer (and venting the headspace via PRV or gas connect) should be an effective addition. perhaps more so even than purging beforehand (certainly may be more economical, for what thats worth).
i did this by accident actually, and worried before reasoning it with a bit of research. it's a known homebrew method for knocking a bit of condition out of overcarbed kegs, i just never related it to this before..
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