Stainless Hot Water Cylinder conversion - ideas

[cerbera84]

Hi guys,

Having been inspired by PoppaZombie's tipping mashtun post here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78231, I've purchased a 117 litre stainless hot water cylinder from eBay:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

I'm aiming to convert this cylinder into my new boil kettle. I have a 50 litre Bergland pot already but I'm trying to increase my batch size and I'm fed up of having no headspace. Even if I trim some of the top off this cylinder, it should easily be capable of holding 100 litres. I may actually reduce its size down so it can hold 80 litres or so, as I'm looking at a 55 / 60 litre batch size. There are four 22mm threaded connectors on the side of this cylinder, two low down, one halfway and one near the top. I'm hoping the internal side of the connectors will accept 22mm pushfit fittings, but I'll check once the top is removed.

My initial thoughts on its conversion are:
a) cut off the top with my jigsaw and discard
b) fit a plywood collar to rim of top
c) use 22mm to 1/2" BSP adapters to use my current ball valves, hose tails etc
d) use one low connector for 1/2" BSP ball valve for draining post boil
e) halfway connector - possibly for my temp probe, depending on what water level this is at. If this is not feasible, possible whirlpool port, if I can figure a way to connect up the pipework internally...
f) top connector - maybe input from mashtun
g) the other low down connector - possible sight glass assembly.
h) fit my two Peco 2.4kw kettle elements
i) maybe use the inner coil (once removed) in a CFC

I'd appreciate any suggestions on my planning / things to consider.

Cheers, Ben

[cerbera84]

So far I have removed the insulation from this cylinder, haven't done much else yet....but that's because I've bought another cylinder and there's been a slight change of plan.

My second cylinder is going to be converted to a boil kettle, and the first cylinder is going to be converted to a fermenter (this one is 427mm wide and it fits in my larder fridge).

I made a quick jig to hold my angle grinder and starting marking the cut:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Starting to make its mark:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

And voila:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Looking promising inside, nice hefty coil in this one, will need to come out but it might make a good CFC with copper tube inside:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Just need to tidy up the edges of the top with a flap disc.

Side by side:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

The internal stainless coil is 22mm, so I am hoping to cut that out and go through the wall from the inside with a hole saw (25mm), step it up to 26mm with a step bit and I should be in 3/4" BSP territory for some fittings.

[Fil]

If Using as a fermentor I would be very tempted to leave the coil in place for temp control.

Am watching in awe....

[cerbera84]

cheers Fil, the shorter one (with the top cut already) will be the boil kettle. The coil in the taller, narrower cylinder (and soon to be fermenter) is corregated and may be quite difficult to clean, so once I've cut a lid into that one I'll whip that out as well. I'm only planning on fermenting maximum 60ish litres, so will use the fridge and tubular heater for chilling/heating and hopefully it will turn out ok

[PoppaZombie]

This is magic. Glad someone found my thread useful. I keep looking at those Gledhill tanks as I'm considering making an HLT with one about that size. I'd end up keeping the jacket on though. In your opinion, would it be possible to keep the Gledhill insulation jacket and take it on and off as you like? I only say this as from the look of your tank it wasn't glued or formed directly onto the stainless during manufacturing. My kingspan insulation was and it would be a mess job scraping it all off. If you still have it it might be good to keep it as you will stand a better chance of keeping a rolling boil with some insulation on, therefore allowing switching between your elements during the boil. Less chance of element burnout and all. Then when its cooling time just take the jacket off?
Great work there making the grinder jig too. It is a hell of a lot neater than my cut was.
I'll be watching with great interest.
On a side not, I'll post an update on my thread later as I used the mash tun for the first time on Easter weekend and it worked a treat. Zero degree drop in temp over an hour mash. Cant ask for more than that.

[PoppaZombie]

Also, when using as a fermenter you are going to have to scrub and sanitize the hell out of the welds on the inside. They look a little rough for me but he who dares and all...... maybe some angry caustic or something......

[cerbera84]

I keep looking at those Gledhill tanks as I'm considering making an HLT with one about that size.

Funny you say that, I am in two minds whether to use the Gledhill tank as a HLT instead of a fermenter. Would need to find a fairly cheap fermenter that holds at least 60 litres that would still fit in my larder fridge though and I'm struggling.

I'd end up keeping the jacket on though. In your opinion, would it be possible to keep the Gledhill insulation jacket and take it on and off as you like? I only say this as from the look of your tank it wasn't glued or formed directly onto the stainless during manufacturing.

You're right, the insulation isn't firmly attached to the cylinder. There's a plastic film in between which makes it really easy to remove it. I removed the insulation for aesthetic reasons really, I'm not too concerned with HLT heat retention. I'll probably just fit 2 x 2.4kw Peco elements as 4.8kw should be fine to raise the temp. I think if you took care when removing the insulation you might be able to do as you say.

Great work there making the grinder jig too. It is a hell of a lot neater than my cut was.

Cheers, it was a bit Heath Robinson but it did the job.

On a side note, I'll post an update on my thread later as I used the mash tun for the first time on Easter weekend and it worked a treat. Zero degree drop in temp over an hour mash. Cant ask for more than that.

That's good news. What did you use to clean the inside of your tank? I was researching Bar Keepers Friend and a non-metallic scrubby...

Also, when using as a fermenter you are going to have to scrub and sanitize the hell out of the welds on the inside. They look a little rough for me but he who dares and all...... maybe some angry caustic or something......

I haven't examined the welds on the Gledhill tank yet as the lid isn't off yet, but from their marketing brochures their welds are automated, then they're pickled and passivated, so reading between the lines, in my amateur view, this appears akin to sanitary welding...? Might make it of use as a fermenter, but as I say, I might make that one a HLT anyway.

[cerbera84]

Had a spare hour yesterday so I tidied up the top edge:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Then chopped out the coil using a mix of angle grinder and dremel:

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

I tidied up the rim of the lid too - anyone have suggestions on how to use this as a lid? I've seen things like washers bolted onto the rim to give it the overhang, or air hose around the outside, but I'm looking for a neater suggestion...?

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

I had my eye protection on, ear plugs and ear defenders but...always wear gloves! Snagged it on the jagged edge of the removed coil...

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

My Starrett 27mm hole saw turned up yesterday so I will attempt to drill out the old connectors from the inside later today

[PoppaZombie]

Progress is looking good.
I was in the same boat looking for a 60ltr fermenter. I needed narrow and cheap. I went for the Brouwland 60ltr barrel type.

http://www.home-brew-supplies-uk.co.uk/ ... d-tap.html

I'm only on my second brew with it but I'm really happy with it so far. It's easy to clean (after the initial safety spec and gloves caustic wash) and fits in my brew fridge without a problem. It's 41cm in diameter if that is small enough. It comes with the airlock and tap too which is a bonus. The airlock does make it quite tall overall but in my larder fridge that's fine if it's the only one in there. If I ever get time to brew more often I may try and get a blowoff tube so I can squeeze a 60ltr fermenting bin on the shelf above. It's fine for now though

With regards to the lid, I don't have any neater suggestions for you I'm afraid. I'd probably go for a length of hose around the edge like you suggest.

I used a stainless steel cleaner straight off the shelf in my local hardware store. This one Infact:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stellar-Polish ... B00BMXCT8A
I bought the matt version as apposed to the shiny steel cleaner

I also bought barkeepers friend so used that first, then gave it some with the other stuff. Overkill maybe but I wanted to give it a real good clean first time out. The barkeepers friend certainly does smash it and I'd recommend that over the Stellar stuff. If I did it again I'd have just bought that.

[PoppaZombie]

Ps. When I looked at the welds on the inside of my tank I saw quite a bit of pitting. The surfaces seem passivated as there is no rust but there are a lot of crevices, pitting and rough spots, especially where the downward weld meets the bottom dome. Sanitary welds are ground and polished smooth. I also didn't like the look of where the coil and inlets/outlets come in. Lots of tight crevices for yeasty gunk to sit, dry and harbour nasties. I'd end up cleaning it for ages before I'd risk my 60ltrs of wort so it's a no go for me.
Perhaps if you could cut them out completely and replace with something removable it could be a bit more user friendly as a fermenter?

[cerbera84]

cheers PoppaZombie, good advice. I think I might abandon the conversion to fermenter idea and go for a large HLT. Thanks for the fermenter link, thats £51 with postage so I might save up a few more pennies and go for one of these http://www.wiltec.de/speidel-beverage-f ... oCKRDw_wcB for about £65 ish.

I'm currently thinking some of this https://www.polymax.co.uk/silicone/edgi ... trip-black for the edges of the lids and cylinders, if I'm lucky they might make up the gap on their own!

Managed to cut the other cylinder's top off. Not quite as neat as the other one, knocked up another jig but there was a bit more play in this one (the centre 22mm feed was much taller on the other cylinder, which helped)

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Used my 38.1mm QMAX cutter to punch out a hole over the previous 22mm connection, which did a sterling job (with a bit of leverage)

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

Comparison of the two holes - the QMAX hole is nice and neat. Used the Starrett 27mm holesaw to make the other one, which is ok but the holesaw has only lasted for 1 and a bit holes as its teeth have knackered... I used oil but I'm using an old Black and Decker drill which has no speed control, so that's not helping. At £6 a pop, this hole making might get expensive.

Untitled by Ben, on Flickr

[Fil]

check out the for sale section someone has 12x Stainless 100l fermentors for sale starting @ £65

[PoppaZombie]

That edging should do the job just fine imo. The fermenter looks sound too.
Those Qmax cutters sure look to do a neat job. My hole cutter always makes me nervous that it is a bit off centre so one of those looks ideal.
The fermenters look very tempting. I just don't have the space for one but atm. Or do I......

[cerbera84]

check out the for sale section someone has 12x Stainless 100l fermentors for sale starting @ £65

Thanks for the heads up Fil, placed my order for one. I'm now researching heat tape and glycol cooling coils for it - what have I started

[Fil]

Glycol might be a bit severe ??
what are the ambient conditions of your fermenting spot??

draught proofing and insulation can be sufficient to retain the yeast activity generated heat in many cases..