Electrical question on pid's

The forum for discussing all kinds of brewing paraphernalia.
Post Reply
sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:48 pm

Just been an inkbird itc 100 vl 12-24v pid. Just wondered if i could wire it to a 40 amp ssr then use it to switch a 2kw element ?

Thanks in advance

User avatar
themadhippy
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2853
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:53 am
Location: playing hooky

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by themadhippy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:06 pm

As long as you power the pid with no more than 24V and the 40A ssr can deal with a 12v DC control voltage it'll be fine
Warning: The Dutch Coffeeshops products may contain drugs. Drinks containing caffeine should be used with care and moderation

sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:18 pm


sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:21 pm


sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:56 pm

Just thinking out loud if im powering a pid off 12 volts how can i get enough umph to a element or am i gonna have to wire it slightly differently. As i know the pid will draw about an amp were as a 2kw element will need 10

User avatar
themadhippy
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2853
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:53 am
Location: playing hooky

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by themadhippy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:05 am

Just thinking out loud if im powering a pid off 12 volts how can i get enough umph to a element or am i gonna have to wire it slightly differently. As i know the pid will draw about an amp were as a 2kw element will need 10
the "umph" for the element comes from a separate 240v supply thats switched by the external 40A ssr.Is there any reason for wanting a 12v pid ? if not get the ITC-100VH
Warning: The Dutch Coffeeshops products may contain drugs. Drinks containing caffeine should be used with care and moderation

User avatar
Kev888
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7629
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by Kev888 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:16 am

Yes, as themadhippy says. Relays switch powerful loads/circuits, but they are 'caused' to switch by separate, smaller signals. In the case of the SSR you linked to, a very small current at any voltage from 3 to 24vdc will cause it to (effectively) switch, and the switch can cope with high voltage AC and many amps.

So your 12v PID would not feed the element directly, it would simply cause the SSR to turn on. The SSR would then switch a mains power circut, in order to supply the element. So there are two different circuits passing through the SSR; the low-power/signal circuit and the high-power/element circuit.

In practice things are more complex, and there are 'many' different options according to requirements. For example, a PID could be mains powered, yet cunningly output a low voltage signal for controlling the SSR (no separate PSU needed). And SSRs can be designed to be switched by all sorts of signals - different voltages, ac, dc, (or even resistances). Plus, as they're somewhat inefficient, they will often need additional heat-sinks to avoid getting too hot. PIDs also have different options for probe types and output method etc. not all of which would be appropriate to switching SSRs or your measurement requirements.

There are sets of PID/SSR/Heatsink available, which may help simplify a little if the retailer can be trusted. But you still need to properly understand what you want in their main aspects in order to choose the right combinations. And the power and voltage involved are significant, so for safety if nothing else, you should be confident in your understanding before going there.
Kev

sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:09 am

themadhippy wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:05 am
Just thinking out loud if im powering a pid off 12 volts how can i get enough umph to a element or am i gonna have to wire it slightly differently. As i know the pid will draw about an amp were as a 2kw element will need 10
the "umph" for the element comes from a separate 240v supply thats switched by the external 40A ssr.Is there any reason for wanting a 12v pid ? if not get the ITC-100VH
The reason was it was given to me so thought id make use of it.
My main aim was to power a hlt and bring it up to sparge temps and hold it there.

So my understanding is i power the pid from the linked 12v power supply that the goes to the ssr and somewhere i have a seperate 240v coming in which is stopped by the ssr until it pulses open.
Ive seen the basic wiring diagram but has anyone got tye more complex one ill need for this build ?

Thanks in advance sean

User avatar
themadhippy
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2853
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:53 am
Location: playing hooky

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by themadhippy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

Image
Warning: The Dutch Coffeeshops products may contain drugs. Drinks containing caffeine should be used with care and moderation

sbond10
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3002
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by sbond10 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:04 pm

Thank you mad hippy for the diagram

Einbrew would you put the fuse in the middle of the of the live wire is that what your suggesting ?

User avatar
themadhippy
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2853
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:53 am
Location: playing hooky

Re: Electrical question on pid's

Post by themadhippy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Aalso put a 10A fuse in the element circuit, the SSRs can fail closed circuit, as well as open circuit.
care to explain what the fuse will be protecting as the ssr is open or closed circuit in normal operation,well its not as theres a slight leakage current,but that type of failure wont lead to any fault currents.
would you put the fuse in the middle of the of the live wire is that what your suggesting
If your using a 13A plug the fuse in the plug will do
Warning: The Dutch Coffeeshops products may contain drugs. Drinks containing caffeine should be used with care and moderation

Post Reply