Pump recommendation

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Meatymc
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Pump recommendation

Post by Meatymc » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:24 pm

I'm looking at converting from no chill without a mains water supply for cooling. This will involve an outside water butt and an internal water barrel with c6KG of ice to help cooling. Total pipe run would be about 10M.

I know the accepted wisdom is to chill as quickly as possible but the best I can acheive means trying to cool the heated water from the kettle, through the butt and then through the barrel before it 'recirculates' into the kettle. The pump would need to be sufficient obviously but not so it flows so quickly the heated water doesn't get chance to at least cool down somewhat before hitting the kettle again.

I'm not even sure this would work as the water will inevitably get walmer and walmer as it recirculates although the pipework will be exposed throughout it's length, I'm drawing 'cool' water from the base of the butt ('heated' return simply flows into the top) and there's the possibility of a 2nd chiller in the barrel - perhaps a more simplistic hose set-up rather than a much more expensive copper/stainless coil given there's no contact with the wort.

Any thoughts and/or recommendations.

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:25 pm

Don't recirculate hot coolant back into your coolant reservoir. Run the really hot stuff into a spare bucket or fermenter and use it for cleaning.

You are better off running the mid temperature stuff into another collection vessel or just let it go down the drain, or water your lawn.

If you really have to capture and reuse it, get a kids paddling pool or similar collapsible vessel for the waste coolant, and top up the butt at the end of the day.

Of course if you can trust the water source i.e. It's not urban rainwater you can pump it into your HLT and brew again with it.

Never warm up you coolant or you will never hit pitching temp.

As for pumps you will want something pretty beefy, mains powered not 12V.

Fil
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by Fil » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:23 pm

I agree run the hot post chill water to a 3rd tank, chilling rates drop when the liduid chilling is closer to the temp of the liquid being chilled thru a heat exchanger so to increase performance to optimum maintain the biggest difference between cool and ht liquids as possible..

i wuld even hold back on the ice addition until at the last 10-20c drop too.
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guypettigrew
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:42 pm

Fascinated to know why you don't have a mains water supply for cooling.

Guy

Meatymc
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by Meatymc » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:24 pm

I brew in the garage, our water supply is metered and we're on heavy clay with the ground often under water hence re-using any cooling water isn't an option for over half of the year. And yes, I have been putting drainage in. And no, it's not making much difference - turns out the area was a marsh before they decided to start building on it in the '70's.

Simply trying to avoid wasting water as it would have to go straight down the drain or we'd drown!

Done some calculations using Fouriers Law and this looks like a total non-starter to be honest.

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:27 pm

guypettigrew wrote:Fascinated to know why you don't have a mains water supply for cooling.

Guy
The OP or OPs partner may have some strong views about using several hundred litres of fresh water as coolant that gets run down a drain.

Rainwater OTOH is plentiful if you are capturing it from a suitable roof area.

When you are starting to do larger batches/and or more frequently, your freshwater consumption in terms of waste coolant starts to look vulgar. Easily solved by just capturing it.

guypettigrew
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:12 pm

Ah, yes.

Years ago I used to boil my wort to well below my intended final volume then chuck in loads of pre prepared (ie boiled and sterilised) ice. I used ice cream containers to freeze it down in and usually added, if I remember correctly, five litres or so of ice at -18C.

Cooled the wort very quickly and never gave me any infection problems.

Guy

Digby
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by Digby » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:04 am

Hi,

Apologies if what I do is not helpful but...

I set up a water butt near my brew kit and put in a dozen or so 1 litre PET bottles full of ice. I use a water butt pump to transfer water from my actual water butt to the ice filled one. For wort cooling I put the pump in the iced water butt, pump the cold water through my copper worth chiller with the outlet going back to the original water butt.

This may sound complex but adds virtually no time to my day as it is all set up during the boil time. If you brew indoors this would also work as you could just run the hoses in and out of the door or window.

Makes a big difference to my water use when brew 50 to 60 litres. Brewing is always a heavy water user so anything I can do to reduce that makes me feel better!

Matt

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Meatymc
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by Meatymc » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:32 pm

Matt - don't apologise mate - I'd almost given up on this idea before even starting but you've got me thinking on it again.

As others have mentioned, this all comes of not wanting to waste water and although using the no-chill has worked for me so far, I'd much rather get on track with the majority. As important, no-chill adds at least a day (well overnight) to the brewing process - more in summer, which can then dictate what day I brew on. If I could crash cool it would give me more flexibility.

And as for the OP's partner..................
TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:27 pm

The OP or OPs partner may have some strong views about using several hundred litres of fresh water as coolant that gets run down a drain.
...............................she'd flip her lid!!!

So back to the original question - any pump recomendations anyone?

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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by vacant » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:21 pm

I collect around 100 ltr of waste water when I generate RO water for my brews. I put a FV on a step ladder and keep that topped up when running the IC. Gravity wasn't enough - I added a £7 submersible aquarium pump. It takes longer than using mains pressure but gets the job done. First 50 ltr or so of the hottest water is then used for cleaning.
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TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Pump recommendation

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:22 pm

Both keg kingdom and malt Miller offer a mains powered pump in the £80 range. 1.5m head which is what you will need I think. I own the KK one but I think it's the same unit or close enough. This pump runs for hours on my brewdays, recirculating my mash, or cleaning down my kit.

Consider your needs though, you may need 2 pumps: one to circulate coolant from butt to UC coil, and another tocirculate hot wort around the IC . If you can get coolant above the kettle you can gravity feed the coolant and save some money.

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