Another Counterflow Question - AliExpress

[Kev888]

Well im using the same pump as the grainfather and a similiar length cfc so fingers crossed may even use soda crystals like i currently do

My pump is magnetically coupled so no bearings ?

By replicating similar circumstances to the GF things are likely to be okay, they've had a lot of testing. But if you do try another cleaner make sure its one that doesn't gas/foam excessively. By way of example, I tried an oxy cleaner some months ago that was ridiculous: a tiny bit in a cup of hot water lost more than half of the volume as foam climbing out. By contrast others have been much calmer, whilst PBW just fizzed a bit on the surface - and cleaned more effectively too.

The magnetic coupling is just the way the driving (turning) force is transmitted to the impeller, the impeller isn't entirely suspended by the magnetism in these pumps. Instead it has its own little shaft to do that, and subsequently there are (plain) bearing surfaces. These are lubricated by the liquid, which also helps keep the impeller centred, which is why the pumps should not be run dry.

[sbond10]

Would pure sodium precarbonate would better then ? What brands have you found to be less foamy then or monster foamy

I understand how my pump works better now

[Kev888]

TBH I have never tried pure percarbonate in this application, it certainly wouldn't be the worst but I think that may not be the best way to go either. More sophisticated cleaners contain other cleaning chemicals too, which bring a second way of working, plus wetting agents and so on, and so (overall) can be more effective whilst foaming rather less. Plus, of course, some (like PBW and the GF cleaner) are more intended for Clean-In-Place applications and home-brewing.

WRT laundry cleaners I've not conducted proper tests or kept notes so can't say which work best. FWIW one that foamed quite badly was Astonish Oxy Plus, which is a decent cleaner but clearly optimised for cooler cycles.

Some of the laundry products have activators to get them going enthusiastically at ever lower wash temperatures - which may not be so helpful in home-brewing where we want to use hot cleaners, rapid pumps and narrow tubing etc. They also may not include things like scale preventives, or clean as powerfully for the same dilution ratio so the savings may not be as much as imagined. So as always when using a product for a task it wasn't intended, be cautious.

[sbond10]

I may splash out on pbw or the malt miller el cheapo version just so damn expensive

[Kev888]

Yes sadly it isn't cheap. Though you can use less (than normal laundry cleaners) for most jobs because its also better, and you don't need massive amounts to recirculate through a CFC either, so not quite as bad as it seems. My preference is to use the good stuff where it is most beneficial, and still use cheaper stuff elsewhere.

Or, as your system is similar, you could look for recommendations for 'specific' laundry cleaners that have worked for GF users - make sure they've used the same one(s) for a long time with no pump problems though, as they are 'not' all the same whatever some people would like to believe. A similar approach could be taken with alternatives, like the dishwasher tablets people have mentioned.

[Dads_Ale]

I may splash out on pbw or the malt miller el cheapo version just so damn expensive

Talking to Rob at MM the main difference between PBW and the MM version is that the MM version can leave a residue in hard water areas whereas the real stuff doesn't.

PBW is expensive but used wisely it can go a long way.

[wally]

I may splash out on pbw or the malt miller el cheapo version just so damn expensive

Our local band of brewers (Adelaide South Australia) makes up a cheap version of PBW.

We buy sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate in bulk (ie 25kg bags) and mix it in a 2:1 ratio of sodium percarbonate to sodium metasilicate.

It doesn't have the wetting agents or anti-caking ingredients but it works fine, especially at around 50°C. The price works out to around $AUD2.40 per kg (or approx GBP 1.34)

Other groups of brewers do this around the country. You'd be surprised what other uses this has.

The last bulk buy we did used 225kg of ingredients. We just weigh it into plastic buckets with lids and shake to mix. Don't forget your protective equipment, ie gloves, goggles, masks when weighing or mixing.

Cheers,

Wally

[orlando]

My plate chiller is cleaned via recirculated PBW, rinsed and left upside down in a pressure cooker and "cooked" the day before brewing.

[Kev888]

Just to illustrate what I was saying about there being a difference between different oxy-types cleaners: on the left is the pound shop laundry stuff and on the right a 2:1 mix of sodium percarbonate and metasilicate (as wally mentioned above), supposedly a less complete/DIY version of PBW.

Same amounts of cleaner (by volume), same hot water temperature (about 80c). Excuse the low quality, but you can easily see there is quite a difference in the amount of gassing.

The laundry stuff gets even more turbulent with higher temperatures, or less if you leave it for a while - as the gassing (and to some degree the effectiveness) gets exhausted relatively quickly. But, the extra activity doesn't necessarily equate to extra cleaning power; IMO the percarbonate/metasilicate mix is both better and more effective for much longer.

Which - to be clear - isn't to say that the laundry stuff is terrible by any means, it can be very effective. Just that there 'is' quite a difference, and you need to consider what is suitable for your application.

[sbond10]

I googled metasilicatate the other night and its exspensive at 10 quid for 500g and the coshh is bloody scary

[wally]

I googled metasilicatate the other night and its exspensive at 10 quid for 500g and the coshh is bloody scary

Sounds like someone is charging a substantial "mark-up" for re packaging it.

[aamcle]

After trying a few products including Oxi I settled on the humble dishwasher tablet, I'd use PBW if it was cheap but it's not and the tabs work.

Aamcle

[sbond10]

I googled metasilicatate the other night and its exspensive at 10 quid for 500g and the coshh is bloody scary

Sounds like someone is charging a substantial "mark-up" for re packaging it.

Yep is not cheap over here and as its a hazardous chemical it cant go by normal courier apc pure delivery is ten quid

[sbond10]

After trying a few products including Oxi I settled on the humble dishwasher tablet, I'd use PBW if it was cheap but it's not and the tabs work.

Aamcle

Its the perfume that s causing me a hang up with dishwasher tabs. Is it half a tab in ten litres of water at about 60 c