Some Brew Panel questions

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themadhippy
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by themadhippy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:03 pm

As the contacts of either close they will arc
Arcing will also happen when the contacts open,and on certain types of load can be more impresive than the switch on arc.
Another differences between the 2 is a contactor often has extra auxillary,lower rated contacts for control circuitry and as i mentioned above allows the addition of overload protection that link into the main and aux contacts without any extra wiring
Din rail mounting bases are readily available for the common octal and 11 pin relays,the advantage is you can just unplug the relay leaving the wiring in place ,were as you'd need to unwire the contactor.
One final thing to consider is the electric brewery is designed for american wiring,the need for contactors is due to the 240v being obtained from 2 phases,not phase to neutral,only switching 1 phase wont totally isolate the mains.
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PeeBee
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by PeeBee » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:26 pm

themadhippy wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:03 pm
As the contacts of either close they will arc
Arcing will also happen when the contacts open,and on certain types of load can be more impresive than the switch on arc.
Another differences between the 2 is a contactor often has extra auxillary,lower rated contacts for control circuitry and as i mentioned above allows the addition of overload protection that link into the main and aux contacts without any extra wiring
Din rail mounting bases are readily available for the common octal and 11 pin relays,the advantage is you can just unplug the relay leaving the wiring in place ,were as you'd need to unwire the contactor.
One final thing to consider is the electric brewery is designed for american wiring,the need for contactors is due to the 240v being obtained from 2 phases,not phase to neutral,only switching 1 phase wont totally isolate the mains.
Hey, I'm only trying to summarise choice points, not write a definitive guide. And my only interest (anyone's interest on this UK site?) in American wiring is we don't have it over here!

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LeeH
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by LeeH » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:54 pm

Here in the UK, contactors are generally used for switching ‘power’

Relays generally for control...you won’t find a 200A relay or a 1A contactor but you may find both overlap at low ratings.

Also relays are generally rated in amps, contactors in kW in the industrial control/automation world.

*note the excessive use of generally. As there is no official definition....generally.



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PeeBee
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by PeeBee » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:54 pm

LeeH wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:54 pm
Here in the UK, contactors are generally used for switching ‘power’

Relays generally for control...you won’t find a 200A relay or a 1A contactor but you may find both overlap at low ratings.

Also relays are generally rated in amps, contactors in kW in the industrial control/automation world.

*note the excessive use of generally. As there is no official definition....generally.



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Yeah, we've got LeeH now. Like Kev888 not someone associated with "mad". Everyone should feel safer. I hope. Where's "Jocky" anyway, I'm beginning to feel outnumbered?

But going back to the beginning: It was so much easier a few years ago. There was no such thing as a "30A relay" so we used contactors. They were for (high) power, and they were for domestic use (single phase, rated in amps). Then we have easy access to the "Electric Brewery" and countless other projects designed for "non-UK" supplies. The Internet allows anyone to order possibly incompatible components from abroad, ideal if you don't have the knowledge to figure out what you do need in this country. Better still, eBay provides access to expanding suppliers in China. And we all know to trust China with our well being.

Okay, I'm sinking under the weight of cynicism. Time to go now.

Oh look, a passing shot not to be missed. I'm Welsh and hate those words like "cynicism" and all its soft squishy "C"s. They need … hey, what you put this jacket on me for? Get it off. And I don't want to go in that room. And ……

jamieN
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:59 pm

Posts have been read and there is some confuse on my part as it's not my field of work.
So a 25A contactor such as https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2212754152 will do the job for power in, bk and hlt.
I would like to go din rail as stated earlier drilling and tapping is a pain and why do it when you can just go click and it's secured on.
Looking at the image of the contactor I assume please correct me if I'm wrong A1 live in and a2 neutral back to terminal bus which completes the circuit on start up for example turn of the key allows power into the panel which then latches the contactor on 1&2 or 3&4 depending on which way it is wired.

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themadhippy
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by themadhippy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:21 pm

Looking at the image of the contactor I assume please correct me if I'm wrong A1 live in and a2 neutral back to terminal bus which completes the circuit on start up for example turn of the key allows power into the panel which then latches the contactor on 1&2 or 3&4 depending on which way it is wired.
A1 and A2 are indeed the coil connections,when it is powered terminal 1 connects to terminal 2 and terminal 3 connects to terminal 4,remove the power to the coil and theirs no connection between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4

just realised there are 3 contactors listed,the above only applies to the NO version,the NC version is the reverse,power to coil switch contacts break,no power to coil and switch contacts make,the 1nc and 1no version has 1 switch contact that makes and 1 that breaks when the coil is powered
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:02 pm

When using the contactor does it have to be wired up 1-2 and 3-4 or us it just either connection

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Kev888
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by Kev888 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:29 pm

Double pole contactors are normally used in order to switch both live and neutral. If you only want to use one pole to switch the live then you can ignore the other. However, in that case you can (if you wish) save space and perhaps a little cost by buying a single pole contactor to begin with.

Switching just live will work for most applications. However switching neutral as well can be slightly safer as it offers more complete isolation.
Kev

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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:47 pm

Seen this bit unsure if it fits a din rail as it say it's for acti9 isobar. There does appear to be screw terminals top and bottom and also has it own MCB https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3767258410

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themadhippy
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by themadhippy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:06 pm

thats just an mcb
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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:11 pm

Ah ok back to looking then

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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:34 pm

How does this look for a volt/amp meter https://www.amazon.co.uk/KETOTEK-Voltag ... 5090&psc=1

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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:18 pm

Going to go with the above contractors. Would it be advisable to install an mcb before all components.
Seen this for the terminal bus keeping with the din rail install https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2913000677. Can they be bridged?

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Some Brew Panel questions

Post by LeeH » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:26 am

You would be better off using standard terminals and jumper bar. You will need earth terminals too.

And yes, divided your circuits and fuse them.

Do you want a set of panel drawings?


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Re: Some Brew Panel questions

Post by jamieN » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:34 pm

Terminal https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 4365435890
Earth https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1718246995.
A set of drawings would be a great help. I know it doesn't provide a layout but it will show me what components should go and in what order.

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