Gardena Garden Hose - disaster or a subtle new dimension?

[Meatymc]

I'm not going into detail - nor am I going to point a finger at a small relative two generations back from me but, I discovered a 2ft length of garden hose floating about in my kettle mid-boil. It's a length I use to move the wort from the kettle to the cube at the end of the boil so I know it's history. What I don't know yet is what it might have 'added' to the brew - it must have been in there for at least 30 minutes.

Before you give me grief about a boiling pan and small people. I had the garage doors off to make them fit properly - the (unpaid) joiner who made them made a right bloody hash. The small person involved was supposed to be out with mummy and daddy but they'd returned and (mummy and daddy) decided to ignore my warning to stay well clear of the garage. Daddy, suffice to say, is now aware of several phrases he'd not heard before - born in Holland!

Anyway, it's not PVC which I know can be toxic, but I can't find anything on line to tell me exactly what it's made out of - any ideas?

Every intention of fermenting unless someone advises it's poison! And even then, we don't throw nowt away up here without a bloody good reason!

[Kev888]

My enquiries (some years back) with hose manufacturers showed they wouldn't say any hose was safe even for cold drinking water unless specifically sold as such. So I doubt you'd ever get professional advice telling you it was fine steeped in boiling wort; the fact is that it won't be ideal and so can only be your own choice to drink it or not (and something to be considered if offering the beer to others).

That said, I didn't actually find anything scary enough about the things that I would personally be concerned for my own health over a one-off event like this. Just tiny amounts of plasticisers and so on. I'd be more worried about flavours from it, and only time will tell you that.

EDIT: though if the hose has stranded reinforcing, wort will have seeped into this from the cut ends and will make it very hard to get clean. Probably best discard the piece now. Un-reinforced high quality silicone tube/hose (such as from the malt miller) is my preferred choice for most things - even if used on the cold side it is nice to be able to autoclave or boil it before use.

[Jocky]

Difficult to know but there's a chance you're going to get a plasticky or rubber taste in your beer.

Like if you've ever tasted water that's been sitting in a hose.

[Meatymc]

Cheers guys.

Still sat in the cube as fermenters are in use - probably be setting off on Friday. 1st opening should give a fairly obvious clue as to whether it's overly affected - if not, I'll ferment as normal but keep it for myself.

Am looking to improve my process (more posts imminent) and will be defo looking at proper hoses as part of that.

[guypettigrew]

Hi Meatymc

If this little bit of garden hose has been used for ages to transfer your beer from the kettle to the cube then it's possible any nasties have already been rinsed out of it. Perhaps, over the years, you've grown to love the taste of garden hose in your beer!

The only thing garden hose is used for in my set up is running water to and from the immersion chiller.

There's a long run from my outside tap to the 'brewery', so to fill the HLT I use a food safe hose from a caravan place.

All other hoses are silicone tubing. Not only is it safe, it's also wonderfully flexible.

Guy

[Meatymc]

If this little bit of garden hose has been used for ages to transfer your beer from the kettle to the cube then it's possible any nasties have already been rinsed out of it. Perhaps, over the years, you've grown to love the taste of garden hose in your beer!

Hi Guy

I've used it for ages but the more I think about it the dafter it seems. It does get a good clean afterwards and then sits in Star-san until the next brew so I'm hoping it's had everything leached out of it. I did have a sniff of the wort last night (still in the cube - pitching on Saturday) and smells fine.

I have struggled along for several years now with a very simplistic set-up on the hot side - a single 30L pan, dunk sparging, no chill cube and everything hand balled into the garage - but I am now looking at trying to get more organised which will include switching to food safe tubing and hopefully setting up an immersion chiller using water butts (and garden hose!) - I've a mate of mine doing some calcs on what type/capacity of pump I'll need.

[Kev888]

Sounds like an exciting time!

There is benefit to be had in simplicity of course, both in cost and effort - one can end up becoming a slave to 'too' much complexity. But equally if the setup is too simplistic for what you're trying to achieve it can be limiting and frustrating. So yes there is definitely a sweet spot somewhere in the middle and I hope things come together for you!

[Kingfisher4]

It just struck me that the world would be a better place with more interaction like the thread above.
Knowledgeable, considerate people, helping others out for no personal gain!
It feels a privilege to be part of this community.

[Meatymc]

It just struck me that the world would be a better place with more interaction like the thread above.
Knowledgeable, considerate people, helping others out for no personal gain!
It feels a privilege to be part of this community.

I'll second that!

Just posting in Equipment re' pumps mentioned above

[Carnot]

The hose will be plasticised PVC and the plasticiser will most likely be either DOP or DiNP, both of which are ortho phthalate plasticisers. If the hose is more than 15 years old it is likely to be DOP. In either case it will not kill you and unlikely to harm you. Plasticiser will migrate over time, faster at higher temperatures. You might see the hose outer look milky white. In any event 30 minutes is not a long time and potential contamination of the wort would be minimal. DOP and DiNP have both been extensively researched. Claims of being carcinogenic have not been proven, but for safety these products are banned form children's toys as they could be chewed. DOP has since been discontinued mainly due to pressure from a Scandinavian pressure group who are now focusing on banning DiNP. Phthalates have shown some tendency to reduce sperm production by mimicking oestrogen. I would finish your beer and try it. If you find it objectionable then bin it, but my guess is you will not notice any off taste. For info there are over 250 compounds in coffeee that have never been tested. DOP and DiNP are two of the most tested chemical products produced. I work for one of the major plasticiser producers in Europe. I am not biased, just a realist. There are far worse products that you can come into contact and not even know about it.

[Meatymc]

The hose will be plasticised PVC and the plasticiser will most likely be either DOP or DiNP,

WOW - is there anything we can't tackle on this site!

As regards reduced sperm production. I think I can live with that. I'll alert the wife but given any sperm in this house has to negotiate a 10 foot trek to an oak door, open that, crawl across 20 foot of thick shag pile (that's the carpet I'm talking about) open another oak door, another 10 foot of carpet and then leap 3 foot onto the wifes bed, I think we can safely assume a fully functioning phalanx of sperm would struggle. Unless of course, I'm out of the equation and it's the 2nd coming (sorry, couldn't resist)