ITC-308 troubles!

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guypettigrew
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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:52 pm

So, McM, without wishing to add fat to the fire, what did you think of the video linked to in PeeBee's earlier post which very clearly showed the ITC 308 spiking?

BTW, I've had no spiking problems with the 308 controlling my beer cupboard temperature for the 4 1/2 months since it's been installed.

Guy

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MashBag
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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by MashBag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 am

I've not seen this issue.

I have 2 units that I use extensively. Fermentation, bottle conditioning and propagating.

Is it an older issue which had been fixed in newer units?

McMullan

Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by McMullan » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:51 am

guypettigrew wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:52 pm
So, McM, without wishing to add fat to the fire, what did you think of the video linked to in PeeBee's earlier post which very clearly showed the ITC 308 spiking?

BTW, I've had no spiking problems with the 308 controlling my beer cupboard temperature for the 4 1/2 months since it's been installed.

Guy
I have no idea, because I didn’t watch it. Even if I did I’d still have no idea. What do claims from one end user actually mean? ‘F’ all usually. For all we know the controller was accidentally dropped in a bucket of sanitiser or damaged some other way. I did read the linked thread on that other forum (the one with suspiciously tight control on any product advertising). Maybe they fell out with Inkbird? Maybe they got sponsored by a competitor of Inkbird’s? Who knows? It’s not like 1000s of end users are complaining, is it? What do claims of a handful of end users on one forum mean? The ‘problem’ seems to vary depending on the end user, too, not necessarily Inkbird’s product, which is very odd, IMO. If it were a dodgy batch of controllers I’d expect a consistent problem being reported more than it has been so far and independent of that forum. How many are trying to blag a free temperature controller? Others with a tendency to look for ‘problems’ are going to run with it, if they have a tendency to. A primitive kind of herd mentality. Some will even exaggerate the ‘problem’ due to cognitive biases. None if it makes the ‘problem’ any more credible. Just more hysterical. I haven’t observed the claimed ‘problem’ in either of my ITC-308s, something I do know for sure. So when a ‘usual suspect’ makes a sweeping statement about how “all (most?) ITC-308s are faulty” and expresses cognitive bias (reminding me why I could never have made a career in customer services), it’s probably best to assume he’s typing shite, again. That’s what I think.

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by WalesAles » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:39 am

I`ve got a Peugeot 308.
No spiking there! #-o

WA

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by PeeBee » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:21 am

MashBag wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 am
I've not seen this issue.

I have 2 units that I use extensively. Fermentation, bottle conditioning and propagating.

Is it an older issue which had been fixed in newer units?
If only! Might be a newer issue that was broken in newer units? My newest ITC-308, and it has the issue, I received last Christmas (2020). It was a warranty replacement for another unit with the issue. So, 7 months new!

My guess is Inkbird's denial that there's a problem will be down to not wanting to get involved in a mass replacement of faulty units: They might fix the issue in future units without saying a word. Note you wont see the problem just monitoring the temperature, in fact the fault will result in the temperature being held tighter to the "set temperature". But is the random pulsing on/off of the compressor causing damage? The assumption is "yes" (hence "compressor delay", though it is not effective for this issue), but is it actually true?

The work-around I'm using is to set the "dead zone" a little higher than the worst observed spikes. Say 2 or 3 Celsius (not 0.5C, even Inkbird have said that's crazy). It doesn't cure the issue, but significantly reduces the number of on/off pulses. (An erroneous spike causes the compressor to come on for at least a number of seconds/minutes rather than instantly switch off again).



I see the McMullan troll is still posting in this thread, but I've switched off visibility of its content again. Guess I was being in a bad mood yesterday and it'll be all confused now ...


Aww, has that nasty PeeBee been all grumbly grumpy with nice McMullany. Ssooorry. Kissie, kissie! Does that make you feel better?

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

McMullan

Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by McMullan » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:42 am

Sorry, I have better things to do. This is very cool, though :twisted:


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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by PeeBee » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:44 pm

I don't want people forgetting this stuff about how faulty ITC-308s are, so I recently added this update on that "other" forum:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/thre ... st-1072608

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by Jocky » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 pm

Weird. I’ve had a couple of those units (one a few years ago, one I bought back in May/June 2020) and didn’t observe that issue.

Although I have the on/off band at 2c and also set a compressor delay.
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MashBag
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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by MashBag » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:01 pm

Yeah. Mine are fine too. Perhaps it's a uk thing. I don't cool much with mine.

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ITC-308 troubles!

Post by f00b4r » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:13 am

PeeBee wrote:I don't want people forgetting this stuff about how faulty ITC-308s are, so I recently added this update on that "other" forum:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/thre ... st-1072608
Jocky wrote:Weird. I’ve had a couple of those units (one a few years ago, one I bought back in May/June 2020) and didn’t observe that issue.

Although I have the on/off band at 2c and also set a compressor delay.
My experience is that mine has worked fine for a number of years, apart from the times I plugged in the fridge/heater the wrong way round and the time I left the temperature probe dangling out of the fridge - both user error. Maybe there is a faulty batch or some faulty units. I would be loathe to say otherwise given the amount in circulation and that this is what the company selling them specialise in; years of experience in troubleshooting IT issues at all scales make me very wary of drawing conclusions when the root cause is not known or the problem can’t be reproduced at will for everyone with the same equipment.

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by MashBag » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:56 am

the problem can’t be reproduced
That's a very good point.

Is there a test to prove if a unit has the problem?

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by PeeBee » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:47 pm

The problem can't be replicated?

It's random! I have four units. They all exhibit the issue to a greater or lesser extent (some 3 or 4 years old, 1 a warranty replacement for the issue less than 1 year old). Others with no connection to me are taking up their time describing this issue. The issue does not affect heating, the spikes go the wrong way! Heating might get turned off early, but the temperature remains in the set limits. When cooling the spikes don't cause the temperature to go outside the set limits either. But the spikes will cause on-off pulsing (fractions of a second to a handful of seconds) of the cooling compressor which we are told must not occur (and if that is wrong, then what is a "compressor delay" for?).

I changed tactic recently to push forward this issue to one of: "would you actually notice the fault occurring?". Remember, the fault does not cause the temperature to wander outside it's set limits; in fact the issue maintains tighter control of the temperature (a fact I use in my "fix"). But the tighter control is to the possible ruination of the cooling compressor.

The comment " I would be loathe to say otherwise given the amount in circulation and that this is what the company selling them specialise in" is a remarkably naïve comment! As if the manufacturers are obviously saints and to be 100% trusted?


At the end of the day I couldn't give a flying fig whether people believe me or not. But will folk be rushing to thank you for attempting to discredit someone trying to publicise the issue that they happen to be experiencing?

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by f00b4r » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:21 pm

PeeBee wrote:The problem can't be replicated?

It's random! I have four units. They all exhibit the issue to a greater or lesser extent (some 3 or 4 years old, 1 a warranty replacement for the issue less than 1 year old). Others with no connection to me are taking up their time describing this issue. The issue does not affect heating, the spikes go the wrong way! Heating might get turned off early, but the temperature remains in the set limits. When cooling the spikes don't cause the temperature to go outside the set limits either. But the spikes will cause on-off pulsing (fractions of a second to a handful of seconds) of the cooling compressor which we are told must not occur (and if that is wrong, then what is a "compressor delay" for?).

I changed tactic recently to push forward this issue to one of: "would you actually notice the fault occurring?". Remember, the fault does not cause the temperature to wander outside it's set limits; in fact the issue maintains tighter control of the temperature (a fact I use in my "fix"). But the tighter control is to the possible ruination of the cooling compressor.

The comment " I would be loathe to say otherwise given the amount in circulation and that this is what the company selling them specialise in" is a remarkably naïve comment! As if the manufacturers are obviously saints and to be 100% trusted?


At the end of the day I couldn't give a flying fig whether people believe me or not. But will folk be rushing to thank you for attempting to discredit someone trying to publicise the issue that they happen to be experiencing?
I’m not attempting to discredit any individual, if you are unable to read what I have read and respond to what has actually been said then that is your problem. If you say there is an issue with a product widely in circulation and not seemingly being experienced by others then I would say the onus is on you to explain further why you think it’s the case, it might then move things forward.
Given that you have claimed something similar for the Grainfather software before, provided a massively convoluted “fix”, despite it having been repeatedly pointed out in the thread that others with the same software were not having the same issue (greyed out button IIRC that wasn’t actually greyed out for others?), then overnight vandalising the thread when the penny finally dropped, I don’t think it is unreasonable to see if others are experiencing the same issue and then trying to then narrow it down from there.
You bring up some interesting ideas and observations to the forum but might also want to discuss things a little more reasonably if you want more input on things, eg you could have had a lot more input on using your hydrometer replacements but those with specialist knowledge in that area I’m pretty sure felt disinclined to do so because of some past threads (you are much more fun sometimes Image).
Do you bypass your thermostat at all?

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by f00b4r » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:50 am

Something that was suggested to me when discussing this thread with a friend that could be a possible cause of why some are seeing this issue:

“I just watched the video in the thread he linked to. I had, until a week ago, an ATC 800 running my heating/cooling system and on that circuit I have a 240V single phase to 400V 3 phase inverter to run a combination woodworking machine. When this is turned on everything is fine but as soon as I start one of the motors (4 horse power) the ATC goes a bit random. I've never checked to see if any of the other induction motors on other machines on the circuit cause the same issue and it's a bit late to find out.”

Interference sounds a good thing to investigate.

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Re: ITC-308 troubles!

Post by MashBag » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:55 am

Has anyone else experienced this? You having 4 units makes me think it might be a local issue.

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