Cip pump?

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Rankin_leigh
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Cip pump?

Post by Rankin_leigh » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:35 am

Hi all.
I've seen some topics on here and other sites bit still trying to work it out.

I want to build a little cip circulation for my 60l conical. I know some can't see the point, but it's such a pita getting it in and out of the fridge each time.
I have one of keglands bucket blasters and had attached some tubing to the output of that submersible pump. Sort of worked. The cip spins, and eventually did get most of it of the crud. But was more of a downward shower. I assume more power is needed to get it spraying everywhere.
Screenshot_20210608-082716.png
Any one know if any of these specs would be good enough to work?
Is there such as a thing as too much pressure with them or bigger the better (in terms of say a dirty water pump).

Many thanks.

McMullan
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by McMullan » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:22 am

I have one of these submersible pumps. They’re fine for cool liquids/sanitizing, but tend to cut out as soon as the motor gets warm. Ideally, you want a pump that can handle hot liquids. A Blichmann RipTide pump is the best option, but not the cheapest. You could try a Chinese MP-15RM, but I’m not sure it they’ve got what it takes. They can handle hot liquids, but might work better with a static spray ball, one that doesn’t spin.

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Nashbrew
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by Nashbrew » Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:17 pm

I used a diesel submersible for my keg cleaner is a little on the weak side at 12/15ltr per mi, but does the trick.
Ideally I would uprate the pump if was rebuilding.
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Rankin_leigh
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by Rankin_leigh » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am

McMullan wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:22 am
I have one of these submersible pumps. They’re fine for cool liquids/sanitizing, but tend to cut out as soon as the motor gets warm. Ideally, you want a pump that can handle hot liquids. A Blichmann RipTide pump is the best option, but not the cheapest. You could try a Chinese MP-15RM, but I’m not sure it they’ve got what it takes. They can handle hot liquids, but might work better with a static spray ball, one that doesn’t spin.
I was hoping to not end up spending that much. My hot side set up has 2 chuggers hard plumbed in. Those riptide's do look good though.
My conical is a PET fermenter king/ fermzilla type so can't take liquids above 50°c anyway.

The submersible pumps... They talk about a thermal cut out above 35°c, have you found thats quite on the money, or is it able to handle "warm" liquids.
Obviously these pumps are designed for emptying large volumes rather than recirculating, which I imagine is a lot less stress on it

McMullan
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by McMullan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:21 pm

I find these submersible pumps (mine anyway) cuts out too often when pumping root temp liquids. I bung mine in a bucket full of cool sanitiser. About all it's good for. You really don't need to CIP a PET FV, TBH. I was under the impression you had a stainless FV that was difficult to move - a common oversight when buying shiny FVs that weigh too much for home brewers. Hence the 'need' for CIP. Honestly, don't complicate your life. A little 'elbow grease' mixed with PBW or similar is all you need. Trust me, it does a better job with PET FVs.

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Re: Cip pump?

Post by Carnot » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:50 pm

I am 100% with McM on this. I kept all my equipment on the small size so I can lift it and clean it - the latter is most important. Nothing beats elbow grease. You can dribble water to your hearts content but is will not shift the crud on the wall of a fermenter. You would need really high pressure to shift some of the crap that has deposited on my fermenters - such as a pressure washer. I typically use a nylon scrubby and a caustic cleaner and this shifts most things. A water jet from my hosepipe is 5 Bar and is useless. I would reckon that to clean properly you will need 50 or even 100 Bar( at the nozzle). You are not going to get this pressure from a cheap pump.

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john luc
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by john luc » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:45 pm

I used copper pipe for mine. I also fitted garden hose connectors to the long stem part so I can disconnect it after for easy storage in its bucket with the pump.
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MashBag
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by MashBag » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:28 am

Carnot wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:50 pm
You can dribble water to your hearts content but is will not shift the crud on the wall of a fermenter. You would need really high pressure to shift some of the crap that has deposited on my fermenters - such as a pressure washer.
1m% agree. I have spent money trying to do this.

Kegs and bottles yes. Kettles no.

For kettles it was going to need a jet engine, so I settled on DIP 😁 and fitted a low tap so that you can drain in place.

The rest is a brush, scrubbies and truck wash.... Stainless bedet hozzles do a surprisingly accurate high pressure 😱😱 jet which is useful for rinsing and strong enough for fermenter crud.

guypettigrew
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:33 am

Fascinating how people's experiences can differ.

My fermenter is a conical stainless steel one. After dropping the beer from the fv to a keg I find the walls of the fv are pretty clean. A hot water rinse is all they need. There's always a ring of dried on yeasty crud at the top, but this comes away with hot water and a washing up brush. Very occasionally a green nylon scrubby thing is needed for a resistant bit of yeast.

After that it's a good rinse down with cold water, spray with Starsan (or similar) and leave until next brew day.

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Re: Cip pump?

Post by f00b4r » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:33 am

With the PET fermenters you just want to soak and then rinse them, using a very soft cloth or water jet if needed. No scrubbies on them as they are too soft a material for that, the upside is they are very smooth so stuff tends to just come off with a soaking; if it’s really welded on do a warm (less than 54C) soak overnight with just water and then a shorter soak with PBW before rinsing off.

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MashBag
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by MashBag » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:25 am

Guy,

I get it for youe conical fermenter, I would consider it if I had one.

Shout out!
Has anyone achieved CIP in a BM / grainfather type system?

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Re: Cip pump?

Post by McMullan » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:31 am

Yes, I CIP my BM but you don’t seem to know what CIP actually means. You demand some unrealistic convenience of a procedure being 100% automated. Unless you have industrial drains you’re going to have to get your hands dirty and physically remove hop debris and as much tribute as you can. Even in an industrial setting, unless there’s a safety or practical issue, you’ll be getting your hands dirty before running a CIP procedure. The main point being the end result is consistently better and shinier in corners difficult to reach. Although CIP procedures tend to be automated to varying degrees, and involve pumping hot caustic and/or acid to remove organic films, strictly speaking, a home brewer who doesn’t move his wort machine until it’s clean is CIPing. Even if he’s doing it manually, by hand, 100%.

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MashBag
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Re: Cip pump?

Post by MashBag » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:18 am

Righto. Hadn't thought about it that way. Thanks.

So its not "clean in place" then more a "extra rinse and polish" in place?

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Re: Cip pump?

Post by McMullan » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:01 pm

[WHOOSH!]

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