Damn! Had to tip 75L of beer - ACETOBACTER!!!

[floydmeddler]

Have another one in primary now: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=41040

Will leave for 2 weeks then rack with gelatine.

One in secondary seems to be OK. There is a patch on top of the wort but I reckon it's yeast - it's still fermenting slightly which is annoying. I doubt the gelatine will have worked now because of this...

[hotmog]

I've had to do the same today - two full cornies down the drain; I also noticed there were a lot of white specks floating on top.

They were both from the same 38L batch, but I'm assuming that's coincidence because (also coincidentally) it happened to go into the two original cornies that I've had for probably 5 or 6 years. Now I'd never heard of beerstone until recently, but realised from what I had read about it that both cornies had accumulated quite a thick deposit of the stuff. Having had the occasional brew go bad in the past, I'd invested in a couple of bottles of Vescal ready to treat them next time they were empty... Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

Having soaked the cornies with 1:15 Vescal solution I've spent all afternoon with rubber gloves on and a scouring pad trying to shift the bastard stuff. I've managed to get most of it off (near the top), and from the outside of the dip tubes (how are you supposed to remove it from the inside?), but the aperture is too narrow to allow the necessary elbow grease to be applied to the lower regions. I tried putting some scouring pads on the end of a stick, but it's impossible to get sufficient contact pressure to have any effect.

Ideally what I need is some sort of drill-powered strimmer-like attachment on the end of a pole.

Any suggestions?

[Shadowknight]

Hotmog - steam clean it?

Ok, plan only works if you have a steam cleaner.

[hotmog]

Well, it's taken most of the morning, but I've finally managed to eradicate all traces of it from both cornies using a damp scourer, Astonish Oven & Hob cleaner, and a tubi-grip bandage over my arm to stop it getting ripped to shreds by the edge of the opening.

I wasn't planning on another brew quite so soon after last week's one, but I need to replenish lost stock, so it looks like I'll be at it again on Wednesday.

[floydmeddler]

Update on this. I've finally managed to get rid of this with a current brew. Every single brew since my first post here had the infection. However, by ensuring that the fermenters were air tight at all times, the infection only ever developed in the bottle; a little white film would appear but would never grow and develop. The beer tasted great and I thought it would simply be something I'd have to live with but then the solution came. I read that acetobacter will die in temps past 60c so my solution was simple: 60c+ water!

Before I was using star san only then decided I'd blitz everything with 60c+ water. Primary fermenter had 3 L of 100c water swirled around for around 20 mins - no sanitiser as I forgot. Before transferring the beer to secondary, my autosyphon had 70c water passed through it + star san. Secondary fermenter had 70c water swirled around for 20 mins + star san, bottles were blitzed in the oven at 140c for 1 hr and again, autosyphon and bottling stick had 70c water passed through it + star san.

It has worked!

I brewed and bottled another brew the day before using star san only and these bottles have the acetobacter present.

Good old hot water eh?

[jmc]

Hi Floyd

Really glad you've found a solution to this PIA problem.

Hopefully you'll be able to sort out all kit & bottles using same high temp water method.

Having a boil of all used bottles in the boiler before the next brew eh?

ATB
John

[floydmeddler]

Hey John. Cheers. So glad to have gotten shot of it. I'll stick with putting bottles in the oven I think. Seems to do the trick!

[JammyMatt]

I've just been hit by this. I've just tipped 40 pints of a hoppy Bramling X/Nelson Sauvin experiment down the sink Was a plasticy/powdery film across the beer, with lots of little trapped bubbles in it, which when given a stir kind of shattered into little jagged segments. Knew instantly it was an infection, as have used the yeast countless time before, and never encountered anything like it. It smelt quite suspect, almost abit solvent like, and tasted slightly vinegar. I've got another brew a week in the primary, and had hoped that would get away with it, but that's showing the signs of a very thin film across it now, kind of like when you make tea and leave it to stew for too long. Will probably tip that next weekend if it does get as bad as the first one.

I suspect its been introduced via the syphoning tube. I immerse it in steriliser/cleaner for a good 30minutes and rinse well, but from this thread it's clear that it requires more rigorous cleaning to get rid of this infection. I needed to order some new cleaner/steriliser anyway, so will invest in some star-san maybe, and definitely try using boiling water in all post-boil equipment, since it sounds like it worked a treat for you Floyd.

Great thread BTW, it's been a very useful read. Thanks chaps

[hotmog]

Having noted the advice on this thread that acetobacter cannot survive temperatures above 70 deg C, I now pour a kettle-full of boiling water into my cornies and SS FVs, give them a good shake and leave to stand for several minutes before emptying and sanitising with StarSan.

It's one of the best pieces of advice I've picked up on this forum. Having previously lost two or three brews in succession, I've not been troubled by acetobacter since.

[arturobandini]

I've never had an infection and just reading this stuff gives me the sh1ts and I'm starting to be massively paranoid!

Sorry for your losses boys.

[EccentricDyslexic]

I'm paranoid about air born bugs getting in me beer, so use a hepa air filter and dehumidifier tuning 24/7 to keep the air as clean as poss.

Steve

[floydmeddler]

Having noted the advice on this thread that acetobacter cannot survive temperatures above 70 deg C, I now pour a kettle-full of boiling water into my cornies and SS FVs, give them a good shake and leave to stand for several minutes before emptying and sanitising with StarSan.

It's one of the best pieces of advice I've picked up on this forum. Having previously lost two or three brews in succession, I've not been troubled by acetobacter since.

Glad to hear that hotmog! Would hate for anyone to have to tip the amount of beer I did. I'm completely rid of it now. Airtight fermenters and 70c+ water on everything that comes in contact with the beer has sorted it.

[InsideEdge]

Very interesting thread. It must be that acetobacter is naturally much more abundant in some people's environment than others and merely having an unsealed fermentor allows them to jump in!

[JammyMatt]

Well, after a few weeks and a few batches I thought I'd got this problem sorted, rinsing all my gear in boiling water. I had a batch ferment for a fortnight with zero signs of infection and racked it off. I also brewed another batch, and after a fortnight, it too looked fine. But I decided it needed an extra week fermentation, so I left it in the FV for an extra week. This weekend I opened it up and noticed some TINY patches that looked similar to the Acetobacter infection. It got me worried, so I de-pressurised the corny with the first batch that fermented out fine, peered in, and there's a very thin layer of infection on the top.

So, it seems that rather than stop the infection, it's only slowed it down developing. I'm totally gutted. I have no idea how to cure this problem now I have a third batch a week in the FV, and I expect that will become infected too now.

This sucks

[Frothy]

One thing missing here unless I missed it is a description of peoples fermenters. If your fermenters are scratched or scored by cleaning brushes this will give the bacteria a place to hide and succesfully survive cleaning and sanitation. I.e. the reason stainless steel is widely used is that it has a perfectly smoothe and easy to clean surface. Chuck the fermenters if they are scoured and best to use a soft sponge to clean them.

Other high risk areas include- bungs, syphon tubes, silicone seals and lid rims.

I tend to liberally apply boiling water to most of these things in a bucket just in time for use.


Guys i feel your pain and rest assured many commercial breweries suffer too.