Thin bleach solution for sterlising

[dazza_mac]

Hi guys,

I have been, for the past 3 bottling sessions, sterilisng with thin bleach solution, mixed at 1 part to 50 (20ml per litre of water)

Albeit I have had no ill effects with the final product (bitter, belgian dark and we'll wait for the stout) but does this seem a high level of bleach?

Any comments welcome

Cheers
Daz

[GrowlingDogBeer]

How much rinsing of the bottles do you do afterwards, as long as they are well rinsed after you have had the bleach solution in then you should be fine.

Personaly I don't use bleach in bottles, I use Sarsan, but Videne is another good solution as they are both no rinse sanitisers.

[dazza_mac]

Meant to add that - what a prat....I rinse at least twice or even three times if I get a whiff of strong bleach.

[Kev888]

When i use bleach, I use between about 10ml to 20ml of thin cheapo (30 pence) supermarket bleach per L of water to sanitise, and up to about 50ml where theres some soiling to clean. The problem with supermarket bleach is that it doesn't say how strong it is apart from for example 'less than 5%' which could be almost anything, so best to err on the side of caution. Or I think some domestos type brands may be more specific.

So its not excessive and if you rinse well it should be okay. Some people seem more sensitive to it than others though; I understand you can use sodium metabisulphate or campden tablets in the rinse water to help nutralise any chlorine residue.

Cheers
Kev

[trucker5774]

I also use about 15%. Have done for years and have no complaints

[Spud395]

I only use 3-4 tablespoons to 19L, I did read this somewhere, I also add vinegar at the same rate.
The solution is supposed to be no-rinse, but I rinse anyway.

Been using this for 20 or so brews at this stage for all sanatising needs with no issues

[dcq1974]

Sorry all to seem a little, well "anal"

But please be careful and respect chemicals and how they react - if not you could easily come a cropper!!

Vinegar and Bleach addition is a well known reaction that releases free chlorine gas etc http://chemistry.about.com/b/2007/09/26 ... inegar.htm

Think about it and carry out this reaction in a well ventilated space - or just use bleach (hypochlorite) or other no rinse formulations.

[dcq1974]

What Happens When Bleach and Vinegar Are Mixed

Chlorine bleach contains sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl. Because bleach is sodium hypochlorite in water, the sodium hypochlorite in bleach actually exists as hypochlorous acid:

NaOCl + H2O ↔ HOCl + Na+ + OH-

Hypochlorous acid is a strong oxidizer. This is what makes it so good at bleaching and disinfection. If you mix bleach with an acid, chlorine gas will be produced. For example, if you mix bleach with toilet bowl cleaner, which contains hydrochloric acid:

HOCl + HCl ↔ H2O + Cl2

Chlorine gas attacks mucous membranes, such as your eyes, throat, and lungs and can kill you, so causing that reaction isn't in your best interest. If you mix bleach with another acid, such as the acetic acid found in vinegar, you get essentially the same result:

2HOCl + 2HAc ↔ Cl2 + 2H2O + 2Ac- (Ac : CH3COO)

There is an equilibrium between the chlorine species that is influenced by pH. When the pH is lowered, as by adding toilet bowl cleaner or vinegar, the ratio of chlorine gas in increased. When the pH is raised, the ratio of hypochlorite ion is increased. Hypochlorite ion is a less efficient oxidizer than hypochlorous acid, so some people will intentionally lower the pH of bleach to increase the oxidizing power of the chemical, even though chlorine gas is produced as a result.

What You Should Do Instead

Don't poison yourself! Rather than increasing the activity of the bleach by adding vinegar to it, just buy fresh bleach! Chlorine bleach has a shelf life. This is particularly true if your bleach has been hanging around for several months. It's far safer for you to buy fresh bleach than to risk releasing a chemical weapon on yourself by mixing bleach with another chemical. You can use bleach and vinegar for cleaning, just make sure you rinse before switching products.

[Aleman]

Sorry all to seem a little, well "anal"

But please be careful and respect chemicals and how they react - if not you could easily come a cropper!!

Vinegar and Bleach addition is a well known reaction that releases free chlorine gas etc http://chemistry.about.com/b/2007/09/26 ... inegar.htm

Think about it and carry out this reaction in a well ventilated space - or just use bleach (hypochlorite) or other no rinse formulations.

Actually as long as you add the bleach to water . . . and then add the acid to the very dilute bleach solution you are in very little danger of producing free chlorine gas (Any produced will stay in the aqueous phase).

You can use much lower levels of bleach if you acidify the dilute bleach solution as it forces the equilibrium from the hypochlorite state to the hypochlorus acid, and as you stated in your later post the hypochlorus acid is a very powerful biocide. There si a basic brewing radio podcast with Charley Tally from Five start where he gives the correct dilutions to use . . .however in the US they use laundry bleach with is at 5% concentration . . .in the UK they do not have to state the bleach concentration just state that it is less than 5% . . . . well pure water is less than 5% hypochlorite which makes it difficult to knwo how much acetic acid you need to add to the dilute bleach solution

DO NOT EVER MIX BLEACH AND ACID WITHOUT DILUTING THE BLEACH FIRST

I have actually been experimenting with a new no rinse sanitiser which is a 'stable' solution of hypochlorus acid, and there is no need to actually use bleach and acid. It has been really effective in the 6 months that I have been using it . . . I'll try and get an article written for the September Issue of Brewers Contact.

[Kev888]

I have actually been experimenting with a new no rinse sanitiser which is a 'stable' solution of hypochlorus acid, and there is no need to actually use bleach and acid. It has been really effective in the 6 months that I have been using it . . . I'll try and get an article written for the September Issue of Brewers Contact.

I'd be most keen to hear of this, especially if its more tollerant than starsan is of the PH of the water it is mixed with. I use Starsan quite a lot and its an excellent product, but I'm tired of messing about with bottles of water instead of hoses..

Cheers,
Kev

[dcq1974]

Sounds very interesting Aleman