White residue inside bottles: what is it?

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potatoes
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White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Tue May 09, 2017 3:57 am

Hi All,

I have made a few home brews, maybe about 30, and now I have just encountered a new problem. That is, a white residue stuck to the inside of my bottles. It happened for two brews, a coopers stout and a cider. However, it didn't occur to a pale ale in between. The beer and cider both taste great, so I am pretty sure it is not infection.

The residue does not come off from rinsing (just after drinking), but it does come off with a bottle brush. I did use coopers carbonation drops when bottling and brewing these batches, but am unsure if this is the problem. Finally, it occurs in both glass bottles which were steralised in the dishwasher and plastic bottles which were steralised using a no rinse santiser solution.

Does anyone know what this is?
What causes it?
How do I stop it from occurring again?

Cheers,
Dan
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orlando
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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by orlando » Tue May 09, 2017 6:57 am

If the beer tastes fine then it is probably yeast sticking to the sides. Suggests the bottles are just not clean enough in the first place, that has potential trouble down the line so I would clean really thoroughly with a brush and then bleach followed by a very thorough rinse.
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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by Fil » Tue May 09, 2017 5:29 pm

have you soak cleaned with a strong laundry oxi solution for too long letting the warm cleaner cool?? if so said cleaner can deposit crystals as it cools if used in too strong a solution..

and they are a bugger to shift, I made this error when first cleaning off the machining oils from my tun build, and ended up scrapping them off with a ss scraper lubed with off the boil water so if so? loose the bottles effected and dont repeat the same mistake..
ist update for months n months..
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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by Andy » Tue May 09, 2017 7:00 pm

As above, did you use an Oxyclean type cleaner on the bottles ?
Dan!

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Wed May 10, 2017 11:37 am

Hi Orlando, Andy and Fil,

No, I didn't use an Oxyclean type on the bottles. I did use Mangrove Jack no rinse steriliser but only on the plastic bottles.

Ironically, in order to solve the problem, I used an Oxyclean agent to get rid of it. However, I didn't soak and leave to cool. I put Oxyclean in, scrubbed with a bottle brush and then rinsed. After a fair bit of effort it seemed to work.

If I use bleach, as Orlando suggests, what ratio of bleach to water should I use?

Cheers,
Dan

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Fri May 12, 2017 3:03 am

OK, thanks for the replies. So it is either some cleaning agent crystallised or yeast residue. I will try to remove with bleach and see if it comes back on my next batch... Cheers, Dan

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by orlando » Fri May 12, 2017 7:06 am

potatoes wrote: If I use bleach, as Orlando suggests, what ratio of bleach to water should I use?
4ml per litre of thin unscented bleach. The key is to make sure you rinse well. A belt and braces approach would be to fill a bath with water after rinsing and lobbing in a campden tablet, soak bottles in that.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
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Drinking: Song For Keith, 4 Hops To Heaven, No Stout About It (Porter), From Russia With Love (RIS), Twist & Stout, Reasons To Be Beerful (Part Three)

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Mon May 29, 2017 5:04 am

A further update to this, in case someone is encountering the same problem and comes across this thread.

I tried in the weekend to remove the residue with bleach and water. The stuff was pretty stubborn and didn't come off, unless I scrubbed the hell out of it. The attached picture shows what happened when I soaked in bleach. So, I don't think it is yeast residue.

So this leads me to believe that its probably my sanitiser solution. I have been using Mangrove Jack's No rinse, it is Sodium Percarbonate. Andy/Fil would this stuff leave a residue?

Best way of removing it is use Oxyclean/Napisan, seems to remove 90% of it with a good soak and 10% with a brush. Decided to chuck the infected plastic bottles from now on, but want to resuscitate my Grolsch glass bottles as they are good.

Cheers,
Dan
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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by f00b4r » Mon May 29, 2017 8:36 am

If it is residue from sodium percarbonate then it is because you soaked them for too long and have hard water. I believe others found a vinegar soak will remove the deposits.

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by orlando » Mon May 29, 2017 9:36 am

I have had quite a lot of experience with PET bottles and have drawn the conclusion that they are really a "one trip" solution and that if you want something you can recycle glass is the only alternative. There are plenty of ways of acquiring glass bottles for nothing so unless you have other reasons for reusing PET bottles I can't think of what that may be.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Song For Keith, 4 Hops To Heaven, No Stout About It (Porter), From Russia With Love (RIS), Twist & Stout, Reasons To Be Beerful (Part Three)

Up Next: With A Bitter Luck, Yellow Light
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Mon May 29, 2017 10:39 am

f00b4r wrote:If it is residue from sodium percarbonate then it is because you soaked them for too long and have hard water. I believe others found a vinegar soak will remove the deposits.
Thanks for that tip. I will give it a go. Will see how that pans out. For some reason it occurred in some bottles which I did not use the sodium percarbonate on, which has got my head scratching. Cheers, Dan

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Mon May 29, 2017 10:45 am

orlando wrote:I have had quite a lot of experience with PET bottles and have drawn the conclusion that they are really a "one trip" solution and that if you want something you can recycle glass is the only alternative. There are plenty of ways of acquiring glass bottles for nothing so unless you have other reasons for reusing PET bottles I can't think of what that may be.
Yep Orlando, coming to the same conclusion about PET bottles myself. PET 740ml bottles sit really well inside my fridge, which is the main reason for using them. The 750ml glass bottles (Long necks they are called over here) don't fit in my fridge standing up. I am looking forward to the days when I don't live in a shoebox apartment, and can have my own beer fridge. Dreams are free!

So I think I will revert back to 500ml glass bottles, and acquire the Grolsch 450ml bottles when I can. Hard to get a hold of around here, but will speak with the pub owners.

Cheers,
Dan

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by orlando » Mon May 29, 2017 11:16 am

potatoes wrote: So I think I will revert back to 500ml glass bottles, and acquire the Grolsch 450ml bottles when I can. Hard to get a hold of around here, but will speak with the pub owners.

If they are only going to recycle and there is no money back on them they will not blink an eye.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Song For Keith, 4 Hops To Heaven, No Stout About It (Porter), From Russia With Love (RIS), Twist & Stout, Reasons To Be Beerful (Part Three)

Up Next: With A Bitter Luck, Yellow Light
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

AnthonyUK

Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by AnthonyUK » Mon May 29, 2017 2:18 pm

You should be aware that the active ingredient of oxy clean is also Sodium Percarbonate and it is no longer thought to be suitable as a no rinse sanitiser.
Look at Starsan as an alternative.

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Re: White residue inside bottles: what is it?

Post by potatoes » Wed May 31, 2017 12:41 am

Thanks Anthony, I have been looking into Starsan. My homebrew shop does not sell starsan but does sell "PHOSPHORIC ACID BLEND SANITISER" . It looks like the same bottle and does the same thing. Is it the same?

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