PBW alternatives

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PBW alternatives

Post by f00b4r » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:59 pm

As well as the replacements for Starsan I see there have been a few PBW alternatives released recently, seemingly either coming from the dairy industry suppliers or from the products that have been in use for a while in other parts of Europe.
It would be good to see people’s experience with them compared to PBW, especially if using with hard water (one of the reasons I switched to using PBW all of the time, rather than sodium percarbonate).
There also seems to be widely varying pricing from different sellers for the same products, my initial thought (and I could be wrong) is that all the products are being priced by a lot of sellers at the same as PBW (a product know for being expensive and imported from the US), whether the replacement costs the same in bulk or not. An example for the new on the scene ChemClean, it is double the price at one of the suppliers below as at the other:

https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/chem ... 8885973089

https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/cg ... ml#SID=227

EDIT: The Brew2bottle price has now been massively reduced (see post 7) but it remains at double the price at a lot of other retailers.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Kingfisher4 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:56 pm

Might I also ask for definitive reasons why PBW & Starsan etc have been withdrawn; I have seen conjecture and note the transatlantic source of 5-star, but no referenced definitive reasons.

Thank you

Oldstunty
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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Oldstunty » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:49 am

Just placed an order at The Malt Miller for some Stellarclean Clicky. Thought as it's half price, I'd give it a crack.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by LeeH » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:25 pm

I love the powerful brewery wash tag....PBW.


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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by f00b4r » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:11 pm

Kingfisher4 wrote:Might I also ask for definitive reasons why PBW & Starsan etc have been withdrawn; I have seen conjecture and note the transatlantic source of 5-star, but no referenced definitive reasons.

Thank you
I was trying to dig out the reference for this but can’t find it. If I recall correctly one of the big UK home brew suppliers said it was to do with imports into the EU requiring some form of certification and it looks like the suppliers of PBW/Starsan were either unwilling to go through with it or the cost to them was too high relative to the benefit.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by f00b4r » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:16 pm

Oldstunty wrote:Just placed an order at The Malt Miller for some Stellarclean Clicky. Thought as it's half price, I'd give it a crack.
A good spot.
LeeH wrote:I love the powerful brewery wash tag....PBW.
Yes, a bit cheeky :) . They already have had to put a front page apology to John Guest on their website when they released their Duotight fittings and made some claims about how good they were compared with JG.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Kingfisher4 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:19 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:11 pm
Kingfisher4 wrote:Might I also ask for definitive reasons why PBW & Starsan etc have been withdrawn; I have seen conjecture and note the transatlantic source of 5-star, but no referenced definitive reasons.

Thank you
I was trying to dig out the reference for this but can’t find it. If I recall correctly one of the big UK home brew suppliers said it was to do with imports into the EU requiring some form of certification and it looks like the suppliers of PBW/Starsan were either unwilling to go through with it or the cost to them was too high relative to the benefit.
Thanks, sounds similar to the reason I saw a while ago and definitive enough!

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by f00b4r » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:50 pm

Brew2bottle, linked in the first post, have actually now reduced their prices to the lower competitors price after having the price difference pointed out. They have also said that they will refund anyone the difference who bought it at the higher price.
So worth looking around if you are buying cleaner, especially in the larger sizes, as that is a huge disparity between retailers for the same product.
Nice response by Brew2bottle though.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by aamcle » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:30 pm

I find 1/2 dishwasher tablet works very well in my hard water. I always rinse thoroughly afterwards.

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Kev888 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:19 am

If it were necessary to use a cleaner less suitable for hard water, perhaps a sequestering or chelating agent might be added. FWIW I add EDTA to my home-made PBW-like concoction for this purpose and it seems to help, though I'm not a chemist and there might be better options for all I know. (Keeping soak times modest and/or using an acid final rinse can also help).
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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Nashbrew » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:21 am

I tried Chemclean but found it has an foaming agent in, which when put in my keg cleaner produced a yard full of foam.
Tried to make my own formula with little success as it left a white stain on everything if you left it more than a few minutes.
Am brewing today so I am going to try TFR.If this works It would be a massively cheaper way to go.
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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Jocky » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:23 pm

I used PBW for a long time until it became unavailable.

Stellarclean was decent, but more recently I tried Chemclean, and it certainly foams at first but I’ve also been pretty impressed at its performance.

It’s also going quite cheap at the moment at brew2bottle: https://brew2bottle.co.uk/pages/search- ... =Chemclean
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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Kev888 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:26 pm

I never tried the chemlean specifically, but FWIW foaming can be good or terrible depending on the application. In static applications the activity could be helpful in removing dirt, but if a pump is being used then (over and above the annoyance of foaming) the gasses can cause cavitation and damage to impeller bearings.

Sometimes though it is quite temperature dependent, just a few degrees can change a fairly sedate solution into a mass of foam, just a case of finding the optimum temperature for the particular product. Laundry/oxy cleaners are a particularly good example, some variants include activators specifically to improve effectiveness at low/eco wash temperatures, yet can go OTT if used hot.

So as an aside, if using a generic oxy product on their £hundreds one-pot system, people should make sure they're suitable before blaming the manufacturer for the pump failure. Some are fine, some are not good at all, others might just need a different temperature.
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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by MashBag » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:31 pm

TFR or truck wash and a brush. Cheap and IMO the quickest & best I can find (and I really have tried)

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Re: PBW alternatives

Post by Nashbrew » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:07 pm

Jocky wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:23 pm
I used PBW for a long time until it became unavailable.

Stellarclean was decent, but more recently I tried Chemclean, and it certainly foams at first but I’ve also been pretty impressed at its performance.

It’s also going quite cheap at the moment at brew2bottle: https://brew2bottle.co.uk/pages/search- ... =Chemclean
Wow that is cheap, £74 at Malt miller. Got 5Kg coming tomorrow.
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