Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

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Jaydee
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Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Jaydee » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:14 pm

Hi all,

I’d cleaned up after my last brew day using PBW and then Starsan to sterilise. I’ve now found that I obviously neglected to rinse thoroughly and I’m left with a hazy residue inside my PET fermenter and my yeast harvesting bottle.

I’ve tried PBW again and a 12 hour soak in Starsan but still have the problem.

I am in a hard water area, alkalinity of 220 ‘ish. Could this just be calcium deposits and nothing to worry about?

I would like sparkling equipment - any thoughts on how to remove the deposits?

John

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Carnot
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Carnot » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 pm

I think that your problem lies with the PBW which is a mix of sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate. This will raise the pH and combined with your hard water it has possibly caused carbon dioxide to react with calcium ions and precipitate. The long soak is the problew.

I have never been a fan of Starsan and cannot understand why some many consider it a sanitiser when in fact the best it can really do is act as a biostat. All Starsan contains is a mix of phosphric acid and DDBSA (dodeclybenzene sulphonic acid). The DDBSA acts as a surfactant and the phosphoric acid acts as a rather poor biostat.

Neither treatment will shift the hazy deposit. If you have some CRS or even better hydrochloric acid I would add this as a dilute solution to your vessels and it will robably dissolve the deposits. It might need a soak. You would need to get the pH down to about 3. An alternative would be a kettle descaler which is usually sulphamic acid.

I use two food grade cleaners on my equipment - Amphoclen and Trio 100 . Both work well and are available on eBay. I aslo sterilise with sodium percarbonate all the small pices of equipment such as blow off traps , tubing and valves. So far I have never had an issue with sterilasation. I make a lot of mead which is made naturally without heat or any sulphites and good cleanliness is imperative.

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Eric
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Eric » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:37 am

My belief is the residue will be beerstone, (calcium oxalate). It is a brewing by-product which if not adequately deposited in the mash and/or on the sides of the FV, will finish in the beer to potentially cause gushing.

Acid will help remove it from stainless steel, but the necessary effort can scratch plastics to cause a bigger problem than a layer of sanitised beerstone. In the days when fermentation vessels were made of slate, it was widely thought a layer of beerstone speeded fermentation compared when newly installed.

I found a well heaped teaspoon of EDTA added to 200ml of water containing a 1/4 of a teaspoon of caustic soda (to raise pH) was often sufficient to totally clean beerstone from a 5 gallon plastic FV. After washing off all yeast and other free debris present, do not apply pressure to beerstone on plastic. Add the prepared solution and slowly rotate the vessel allowing time for the deposit to dissolve. The effect is immediately obvious, but the process slows as the solution weakens and is coloured by the removed beerstone. A subsequent batch might be needed in some cases.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

Kingfisher4
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Kingfisher4 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:45 am

Carnot wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 pm

I use two food grade cleaners on my equipment - Amphoclen and Trio 100 . Both work well and are available on eBay.
Never come across these recommended before. Look interesting. What dilution do you use? Are they interchangeable or have they got specific uses? Struggling to find Amphoclen availability, other than specialist suppliers with large delivery charge. Appropriate further tips would be really appreciated. Many thanks.

McMullan
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by McMullan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:21 pm

I make a lot of mead which is made naturally without heat or any sulphites and good cleanliness is imperative.
Cleanliness is good brewing practice, regardless, especially at home-brew scales. The belief it’s any more important for making, for example, mead or so-called ‘raw ale’ and that those who make such alcoholic beverages follow procedures more carefully is quite confounding. Even superstitious. Ethanol, once it reaches about 5%, renders most non-yeast microbes dysfunctional, if it doesn’t kill them, which it does at slightly higher than 5%.

Jaydee
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Jaydee » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:31 pm

Thanks guys for your valuable comments and suggestions.

Think I’ll have to go easy on the PBW and time scale!

Kingfisher4
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Kingfisher4 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:52 am

McMullan wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:21 pm
Ethanol, once it reaches about 5%, renders most non-yeast microbes dysfunctional, if it doesn’t kill them, which it does at slightly higher than 5%.
I bet President Trump would love to know this groundbreaking research. His Covid-19 could be totally cured by completely submerging him in a vat of 6% ABV IPA for say 15 minutes, to breathe that in and out and totally bathe all his respiratory surfaces.

Problem solved! :wink: :wink:

Carnot
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by Carnot » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:34 pm

I would not hold your breath on this concept of >5.5% alcohol being a sanitiser.

If you wish to preserve foods or other organic matierals then 5% alcohol is not going to get you very far. Why do all the Covid santisers require 70% minimum alcohol ( ethanol and isopropanol). You might like to review ways of preserving food( sugar, acetic acid, salt). You can follow our friend's McMullan's advice but I think I will carry on as I do being cautious about infections and strerilising properly because when you are making mead you are into heavy cost raw materials.

B:O

McMullan
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Re: Residue on PET yeast bottle and fermenter

Post by McMullan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:41 pm

Most non-yeast bugs are going to struggle. Even yeast activity slows, in case you haven't noticed. I'm not convinced sterilisation is desirable either. Quite often it alters the product in ways that deviate from the aim. The comparison with the SARS-CoV-2 virus is very strange, too. But each to their own, as they say. There's quite a lot of scientific literature on the subject. It's a shame people don't take the initiative to check, before making planks of themselves =D>

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