Reviews of Member's Homebrew

[spearmint-wino]

And to further DaaB's point - its really good get feedback from someone who knows about beer tasting. We're lucky in that we have one BJCP certified (and another nearly certified...?) judge, a national beer judge and several Durden Park members at LAB meetings each month and the things they pick out during the tasting session which you'd not previously noticed yourself is quite something. Even if you're not interested by competitions and the like its a really enlightening thing to get feedback on your beer from an expert and something I'd recommend to anyone if you ever get the chance.

[Calum]

This is taking an interesting route.

I have to admit that my main interest in this game is to try other home brewers' beer and learn about styles I wouldn't normally make myself (I have since brewed and bottled Vossy's Oatmeal Stout). In return I send out beer that has already passed my own QA process and is of a style that others have perhaps not tried before. I like to think I am fairly clued up on the usual collection of beer faults and even although I have experienced them in some of my beers I am not about to inflict them on the unsuspecting members of this forum (I am sure they have plenty of their own to try ). If I am going to spend the best part of a fiver sending a bottle of beer I am going to try and make it a good'n.

Perhaps other peoples view if this is similar to mine and that is why the beer I have tasted has been of extremely good quality. I don't think we are stroking each other for the hell of it.

As another example, I made a beer at New Year and certain members questioned my recipe and wondered if some of the flavours would work. I didn't know as I hadn't tried it but on my initial tastings it is, in my opinion, a very nice beer. Now surely that is something worth tasting and giving an opinion on.

[spearmint-wino]

This is taking an interesting route.

Ooops, have to admit to being maybe just a touch "forum-posting-happy" right now , don't mean to hijack the thread

Money where the mouth is time I guess... who'd like to exchange a beer for tasting? I've got a 19th century amber malt bitter, a golden ale or a porter on offer.

[Calum]

Now I'm hardly going to knock back an offer like that from a man with your credentials!

I'll PM you.

However, if you send me a can of Tesco Dutch lager I'll be looking around for hidden camera's and Jeremy Beedle

[spearmint-wino]

Now I'm hardly going to knock back an offer like that from a man with your credentials!

Don't set your expectations too high!!

[Vossy1]

That's the point. Once i'm 100% happy with a beer i'll then turn to someone more experienced to look for the flaws I can't spot.

And that's my point If I was 100% happy with a beer I couldn't care what anyone else thinks, for me it's the perfect pint

However, if I'm trying to recreate a 'style' who am I to say what's right or wrong, there are far more experienced brewers out there to tell me where I'm going wrong. At the end of the day, if I'm that concerned about emulating a 'particlular style' I'd be looking to get myself to judging level before passing on my thoughts

You're missing the point of getting an experienced taster to sample your beer.

Not really, see above. judgement via a standard fair enough, but that's where I part company with "the norm".

If a beer tastes great to you, it is a great beer

If I want standardisation in a pint I'll order a Stella or Bud or a Hein whatever it's called

I've never tasted a true cask ale that tastes the same from one cask to the next, and long may that continue
For me a live beer is just that, it tastes different, one cask to the next

[Vossy1]

We're both saying the same thing in a round about way DaaB, however it depends on our perception of a flaw.

To one person a blue steak is the finest meal a person can find, to another it's just uncooked.
Oxidisation/diacetyl, phenolics are all individual tastes and unless a standard is applied, there is no standard.

If all a judge can say is that they just don't like it but can't criticise it in any other way, i'd be happy with that.

I wouldn't. If you're not judging against a standard, how can you judge?
I may like diacetly, the judge may not, we'll never agree, unless aginst a standard

[Vossy1]

There is a standard though, that's the whole point about being a trained judge and not some bloke from the local wine circle who gives awards to a Budget Beer Kit made up with a kilo of sugar because some one decided to prime there bottles with black treacle.

And long may it continue

I'm a bit lost to the whole standardisation thing, tbh.
I know it can only be a good thing, but based on what?
Crops vary from year to year, and true traditional recipe's can no longer be created because the natural ingredients have been superseded by more 'economic/efficient' strains. It doesn't matter who you are, unless you have access to the original strains and methods of preping, you can't recreate an authentic taste.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try though

edit: this is one reason why Brew Labs include a beer tasting and flavour assessment on their courses.

I'd like to do that course, but my previous opinion still applies.
If I found that the main taste in my favorite homebrew was a fault, and I liked it, perhaps the course could help me to emulate it deliberatley.

This response is typically me FWIW
I will challenge everything, to the point of tedium, as only then, can I personally be sure I'm doing the right thing

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

[Calum]

Tonight I'm going to start the evening with Garth's Chocolate Treacle Stout and then moving swiftly onto Mysterio's Oatmeal Stout. After that I would expect all hell to break loose as I start to drink my own stuff.

I wasn't wrong was I. Hornets and nests come to mind

Has anyone thought of doing the BJCP? If enough people became interested a weekly/fortnightly online discussion could be organised. That way we could develop a standard frame of reference for this beer tasting thing. Probably too difficult to organise.

[Vossy1]

I wasn't wrong was I. Hornets and nests come to mind

...healthy discussion is what I'd call it

Has anyone thought of doing the BJCP? If enough people became interested a weekly/fortnightly online discussion could be organised. That way we could develop a standard frame of reference for this beer tasting thing. Probably too difficult to organise.

A good idea Calum, and the way the thread started out, ie, take a standard shop bought beer, get a professional taster to give notes and due to the mediocre standardisation within the large multinationals, we may be able to identify certain tastes.

There has been a distinct lack of interest from the more experienced within us, it must be noted.

[Calum]

A good idea Calum, and the way the thread started out, ie, take a standard shop bought beer, get a professional taster to give notes and due to the mediocre standardisation within the large multinationals, we may be able to identify certain tastes.

There has been a distinct lack of interest from the more experienced within us, it must be noted.

Ant Hayes came up to the last SCB meeting in October to discuss the merits of the BJCP. However, due to availability we managed to clash with the Scotland v Italy football match so unfortunately the attendance was very low. I got the distinct impression that although there were some very keen members (myself included) that we would struggle to get things off the ground due to apathy. Our next meeting is on Sunday so perhaps plans have moved forward but I doubt it.

However, I'm sure if given a proper timetable, list of beers to purchase and the online support of the BJCP members we could have a stab at it. All the information on styles, flavour profiles and commercial examples available (in the US) are freely available through the BJCP website so this could easily be downloaded and used for reference. BJCP Styles

Perhaps this forum isn't the place for this idea but it would be interesting to gauge the interest Does it tickle anyone elses fancy ?

[mysterio]

Personally, I'm not overly keen on BJCP. I think narrow categorisation has the potential spread misinformation (to the extent where Americans think a Scottish ale is a smoked beer). I also think a focus on 'brewing to style' has the potential to constrain creativity somewhat, I don't want to see British brewing become so homogenised. This article sums up neatly what I think : http://www.ratebeer.com/Beer-News/Article-593.htm

That said, maybe i'm completely missing what the merits are. I just don't see it coming over here and everyone starting to brew American Brown Ales and Imperial Pilsners.

Orkney Dark Island... isn't that more of a brown porter than a Scottish Export 80/-?

[Calum]

Personally, I'm not overly keen on BJCP. I think narrow categorisation has the potential spread misinformation

I know what you mean but unfortunately it seems to be becoming the standard, even with members (or certain members) of the CBA when it comes to assessing flaws at least. It's a shame the Brewlabs courses aren't more accessible and run more often. The UK should be setting the standards IMO, at least when it comes to ales brewed in the UK. But at the end of the day, skunking is skunking, and astringency is astringency so there are merits in using a recognised system even if it is a little deluded.

You are not wrong Mysterio. The American brewers have probably identified Scottish Ale from the resources and products that they have had available to them on their side of the pond (they probably get all the big malty buggers like McEwan's Champion, Broughton Old Jock and Harvieston Engine Oil). The information available cetainly does not resemble what I recognise as a Scottish Ale from my experience. Perhaps there is an opportunity to influence the BJCP on the how beers should really be defined and a way to do that is to become engaged with the program. If brewers on this side of the pond sit back and complain about the complexity of the program without offering opinions and alternatives then the divide will continue to be large.

[Vossy1]

Actually this has been discussed at great length behind the scenes as have many other things. It's implementation though has suffered a sad set back..

[Aleman]

Thats where the CBA Regional groups can come in handy (Says he having attended his first yesterday ) Northern region had to pick their entry for the CBA regional brew comp at Derby. and we did so yesterday. . . . We were given a very broad brush from the CBA English Pale Ale . . OG 1.055 +/- 5. Now given that gravity I was expecting IPA's, which according to th e style guidelines fall within that gravity band. However I am guessing that we are really looking for a landlordish type beer.

I would have expected English hops . . . Certainly not the masses of American hops that found their way into too many of the beers. Many of which were under bittered (Bandit) some had massive Hop flavour and aroma (Bandit ), We were lucky to have a couple of Guild judges there to give guidance, and they pointed out many things that were missed (The acetaldehyde in my IPA for example . . . Low level but an indication that something went wrong in the bottling . . . I hope ), the slight acidity in Bandits 4th placed beer (Over use of acid in reducing alkalinity).

Not being a trained taster (I can recognise some flaws fairly easily, and often pick others up when they are pointed out), So I was judging against what I thought the beer should be, not necessarily to style. And in some cases it was would I buy another pint.

A few members of UK homebrew did buy the Brewlabs doping kit and got together for a sensory evaluation meeting, but unless you are going to evaluate beer 'professionally' then regular meetings with other brewers and having a trained 'taster' present to discuss 'characteristics' is the only way to develop your 'nose' for these things.

I've passed on some beers to Bandit and Ian B (Vossy you missed out) to review and as I've told them, I know there are flaws in them, I have a thick skin, I like the beers (well most of them ) so I will not be offended if you think they stink.