Dry hop - temp reduction

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clockhouse
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Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by clockhouse » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:01 pm

So I've just dry hopped my latest brew and as I have a relatively new fermenting fridge (finally I have temperature control!) I'm wondering if its worth reducing the temperature before bottling?

Ive heard that can make all the bits floating around drop to the bottom. (dropping bright?)

So, it it worth doing on a 25lt batch and if so, what temp should I reduce to and for how long?

Thanks!

Meatymc
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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Meatymc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:10 pm

I've only just started doing this (dropping temp etc) so am no expert but did a fair bit of reading up on the subject.

From what I gathered you only need to dry hop for around 3 days as there's no benefit for leaving it longer. I then drop the temp to 1 degree and add gelatin - the theory being (I read) dropping the temp helps to clump together any nasties which helps the gelatin clear-up.

I'm sure you'll get more informative replies but this has certainly worked for me on the last 2 heavily hopped IPA's I've done and, unlike some of those before, they are as clear as a bell whatever temperature they are 'served at'.

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Kev888
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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Kev888 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:09 pm

Pros and cons, really. The closer you get the beer to freezing (without actually freezing it) then the faster it will clear; chilling also helps create chill haze so if you fine then the finings or gelatin can get at it more easily.

But chilling causes the yeast to largely shut down and they need to also later re-acclimatise if it is warmed up again afterwards, which (in addition to the time taken to chill) can slow their post-fermentation clean-up processes and delay priming fermentations slightly. BTW take the term 'crash' chilling with a pinch of salt - even if your setup allows, you don't want to chill too abruptly and shock the yeast on top of everything else they're coping with; drop the temperature over a couple of days or so.

The good news is that both chilling and only reducing to cellar temperatures work and neither are wrong, so it depends on your priorities. For example, when I was able to store beer at cellar temperatures, most styles cleared before they were ready to drink, so chilling only caused unnecessary delay. Now I've only got warm rooms to store the beer, it still matures with no problem but is more stubborn to clear, so now post-fermentation chilling is helpful.

Personally I wouldn't chill before dry hopping as I believe this slows the extraction of aroma, but there are those who disagree.
Kev

clockhouse
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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by clockhouse » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:20 pm

great, very good.

I was planning for 3 days dry hop and then I think I'll drop to about 12-13 and see what happens

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Meatymc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:28 pm

Just on Kevs comment about the yeast reactivating, I was concerned that adding gelatin would take too much yeast out of the beer - particularly as I only bottle. However last night - and admittedly it was from a batch now stored in the garage at well above serving temperature, I opened a bottle of the 1st brew I made using gelatin (been in the bottle 6 weeks) but didn't get to drink any of it..........bloody Vesuvius!

If there's still a CO2 shortage out there I reckon the solution is sat in 38 bottles in my garage!!

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by clockhouse » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:38 pm

nothing worse than a gushing bottle. Soul destroying

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Jocky » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:02 pm

Meatymc wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:28 pm
Just on Kevs comment about the yeast reactivating, I was concerned that adding gelatin would take too much yeast out of the beer - particularly as I only bottle. However last night - and admittedly it was from a batch now stored in the garage at well above serving temperature, I opened a bottle of the 1st brew I made using gelatin (been in the bottle 6 weeks) but didn't get to drink any of it..........bloody Vesuvius!

If there's still a CO2 shortage out there I reckon the solution is sat in 38 bottles in my garage!!
Visibly clear beer can still have over 1 million yeast cells per ml in it, 10 times more than you need to carbonate.

At higher temperatures CO2 becomes less soluble in liquids, meaning that if you opened the bottle at 38c the CO2 in the beer would leap out, taking most of the beer with it. Chill it down before serving and it'll be fine.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Jocky » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:06 pm

Back on the original question - I crash for 2 days. You can go longer to get more benefit and it won't affect bottle conditioning unless you're doing it for months.

However, before you chill your dry hopped beer, give it a taste. You can end up with a little diacetyl in the beer thanks to heavy dry hopping (and introduction of oxygen with the hops), and that just needs a day or two to go away.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Robwalkeragain » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:47 am

For me - dry hop in warm beer, then crash out when you're happy with the aroma, usually 5-7 days for me. For us-05 brews it can be useful to throw the hops in just prior to the end of fermentation, removing the need to break the protective crusty head it forms - great this time of year for keeping out flies etc.
Dry hopping in already cold beer hinders extraction, but dry hopping in clear beer improves extraction, so it's swings and roundabouts. My suggestion would be to find a process that you like the feel of and stick with it, and use enough hops that extraction rate doesn't really matter much. Ideally we'd all have hop cannons and it'd be done in an hour

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Meatymc » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:20 pm

Jocky wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:02 pm
At higher temperatures CO2 becomes less soluble in liquids, meaning that if you opened the bottle at 38c the CO2 in the beer would leap out, taking most of the beer with it. Chill it down before serving and it'll be fine.
Just to clarify, plenty of bottles sat in the fridge in the kitchen - just couldn't be arsed going and getting one. I did when the foam died down though :D

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Grizwald » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:03 am

Newbie here!

Just in the subject of cold crashing, I am looking to do this with my first brew this week, a West Coast IPA.

Background is that I dry-hopped after a week, a day before the hydrometer read the same for 2 days running. The recipe says to dry-hop for 5 days.

So, I have a few questions and would appreciate any advice!

1. I was going to remove the hops (they are bagged) and cold crash after the 5 days, meaning a total time of 12 days before cold crashing. Is that sufficient time?

2. Does leaving the hops in for much longer, say 10 instead of 5 days cause any issues with the hops deteriorating?

3. My cold crash method is to simply remove the heating jacket from the fermentor which is stored in my garage and let the good old English Winter do the rest. Any issues with that?

4. How long do you recommend I cold crash for?

5. I will be bottling straight after cold crash with a plan to leave in-bottle to condition for a further 3 weeks or so. Is that sufficient time?

Thanks in advance! :)

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Robwalkeragain » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:10 am

Heard it from one of cloudwater's brewers that they dry hop warm 3-4 days, cold 3-4 days, regular stirring via co2 (theirs is presumably totally hygeinic, I would settle for maybe one stir if you're opening the bucket). Roughly the same from another local award winner. Extended warm temps can extract vegetal flavours - since doing this my hoppy beers are much better than they were!

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by Meatymc » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:07 pm

Hi Grizwald

I'm no expert but have been through the same learning process you're butting up against so here's my ten penneth for what its worth:

1. I'd remove after 3 days as I believe you don't gain anything by leaving any longer.
2. See 1 above
3. Can't see any at current temp's although the nearer to 0C you can get the more effective dropping out will be.
4. I only crash for 36/48 hours and then allow it to come slowly back to fermenting temp before bottling - the argument being more CO2 is released when 'warm' before priming so the priming is more accurate.
5. 2 weeks in a warm room and then 2 weeks in your garage - if you can wait that long........and don't forget regular quality assurance checks whilst (supposedly) re-arranging the garage :lol:

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by HTH1975 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:40 pm

The main issue regarding dry hopping and temperature is the possibility of getting vegetal flavour/aroma in the beer. I know Brewdog dry hop at 14C and I’ve got some info in one of my John Palmer books where I think it’s either Firestone Walker or Sierra Nevada who advise they chill down to the mid-teens centigrade for dry hopping.

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Re: Dry hop - temp reduction

Post by WalesAles » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Grizwald wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:03 am
1. I was going to remove the hops (they are bagged)
Griz,
Don`t forget to squeeze the bag to get all the Hop juice out! :D

WA

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