Pitching straight onto trub

Discuss all aspects of fermentation
Post Reply
Paddington
Piss Artist
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Pitching straight onto trub

Post by Paddington » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:58 pm

I normally harvest yeast from my trub and grow it on with a starter when I need it. However, I now want to bottle an ESB (I used WLP002) and immediately use the trub to brew an Old Ale, which will be about 1067 OG.

How do I go about it?

User avatar
vacant
Under the Table
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: downstairs
Contact:

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by vacant » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:53 pm

Not advice, just observations:

I step up my slants in approx 1030 wort for all my brews which are in the region of 1045 OG. Now if the yeast does that jump and has acclimatized to ESB, would it have problems jumping to 1067?

I've had fine results from:
  • putting wort directly into a recently emptied FV - i.e. all the previous yeast/trub
  • taking around 200ml of trub/yeast from a drained fv
  • scooping yeast at full krausen
I believe the last one is probably best practise. It's what I usually do for back-to-back ferments.
I brew therefore I ... I .... forget

Paddington
Piss Artist
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Paddington » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:44 pm

My concerns about pitching straight into the used FV is that I've heard it is a massive over pitch and sanitation, but I have heard it can be done. Do you need to sanitise any of the used FV?

I quite like the idea of just throwing some of the trub into the new wort, again my only issue would be how much? Sounds like the answer is about 200ml.

Paddington
Piss Artist
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Paddington » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:49 pm

PS, sorry I can't correct the auto spelling of trub in the title.

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Jocky » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:40 pm

I've done it for a few big beers. An Imperial Stout, a DIPA and a couple of Doppelbocks.

They all came out fine. So do try it if it appeals. The hobby is about having fun and trying things.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

User avatar
vacant
Under the Table
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: downstairs
Contact:

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by vacant » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:26 pm

Paddington wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:44 pm
My concerns about pitching straight into the used FV is that I've heard it is a massive over pitch and sanitation, but I have heard it can be done. Do you need to sanitise any of the used FV?
The empty FV looked OK, no black or white stuff around the rim so in it went. A recent "yoghurt pot of krausen" sat in the fridge for a week and gave an explosive ferment - even more vigourous then the dump into enpty FV I did a few years back. Viability is a mystery without a microscope I guess.
Paddington wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:44 pm
I quite like the idea of just throwing some of the trub into the new wort, again my only issue would be how much? Sounds like the answer is about 200ml.
If you want, there are calculators aiming to guide brewers as to how much yeast is needed. I just trust the beer gods will be kind to me.

I agree with Jocky about trying things except that I got an infected brew after trying to keep yeast under distilled water. I very quickly abandoned that and went back to slants/yeast from bottle conditioned beer/cheap gervin from Wilkos.
I brew therefore I ... I .... forget

Paddington
Piss Artist
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Paddington » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:17 pm

Jocky wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:40 pm
I've done it for a few big beers. An Imperial Stout, a DIPA and a couple of Doppelbocks.

They all came out fine. So do try it if it appeals. The hobby is about having fun and trying things.
So are you saying throw the wort on the old trub without any sanitation?

Top Cat
Steady Drinker
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:59 pm

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Top Cat » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:50 pm

Another useful aid when using trub yeast was recommended to me on this site, it’s Mr Malty’s yeast calculator app. For the price of a pint(depending where you buy it from!) when you put in your starter gravity and age of yeast, in your case it will only be a day, it will calculate how much you need. It also works for liquid starters and dried yeast. IMO a useful brewing aid.

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Jocky » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:15 pm

Paddington wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:17 pm
Jocky wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:40 pm
I've done it for a few big beers. An Imperial Stout, a DIPA and a couple of Doppelbocks.

They all came out fine. So do try it if it appeals. The hobby is about having fun and trying things.
So are you saying throw the wort on the old trub without any sanitation?
I've put wort straight from the kettle onto the yeast cake from a previous batch without cleaning up the old fermenter and it was fine.

More recently when I've done it I put the wort into a fresh fermenter - clean and sanitised - and then oxygenated the wort before adding the yeast in.

For a 1.067 beer you won't need all the yeast. Just leave a little bit of beer on top of the yeast cake when done bottling the ESB. Swirl it up to loosen some yeast on the top and use about half a pint.

Using the whole lot won't harm although might make the beer cleaner (less estery) than you might want.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

User avatar
Kev888
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7499
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Pitching straight onto true

Post by Kev888 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:43 am

If this were a regular or ongoing thing, batch after batch, then I'd suggest starting with a freshly disinfected fermenter each time and transferring the amount of slurry wanted. This is because homebrew FVs usually aren't fully sterilised to begin with and/or may pick up infections in a number of ways, and so the chances of problems multiply as time/use goes on.

However, if your sanitary methods are good and there was nothing odd about the donor fermentation, you'd most likely be fine re-using the same FV for the odd batch. Ideally, you may want to remove some of the trub first if there is far too much, and of course think ahead to protecting the slurry whilst the first beer is run off and until the new (cooled) wort is added; after which it is business as usual.
Kev

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Pitching straight onto trub

Post by Jocky » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:04 pm

Yep, all good points Kev.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

Paddington
Piss Artist
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Pitching straight onto trub

Post by Paddington » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:54 pm

Thanks, for this advice, it is really helpful. My plan is to get my bottling bucket ready while the new wort cools then, once it is at pitching temperature, drain the beer into the bucket and use the trub straight away, either in a disinfected fermenter or just throw it on the old yeast cake, as seems to be more safe than I thought.

Post Reply