Saflager W-34/70

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Jstinchy
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Saflager W-34/70

Post by Jstinchy » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:38 pm

Possible stupid question here...

I'm going to be using the saflager w-34/70 today for the first time when I brew a Muntons Connoisseurs Continental Lager.
I'll be making a 23l batch.

On the packet of the yeast it says 1 11.g pack = for 10-15l wort.

So, for a 23l wort I should pitch 2 packets of yeast (23g in total)?

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by chastuck » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:56 pm

I often use 34/70. I would use two packets myself. Lager generally needs more yeast as you are fermenting at colder temperatures. If you only have one packet you could always make a 1 litre starter. I did this recently when I made a Baltic Porter.

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:23 pm

If you are fermenting warmer, such as at ale 'like' temperatures, one pack should work if you are pinched for time and/or funds (given that W-34/70 is not inexpensive), but adding 2 packs just to be safe seems prudent if you can swing it.
Last edited by Silver_Is_Money on Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Jstinchy » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:26 pm

Thanks guys.

I have two packets and hoping to keep around 15/16 so am I right in thinking go for both?

Pitch at the lager temp or pitch higher and allow to cool naturally?

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:33 pm

If you are going to ferment at 15-16 C. I would also pitch at 15-16 C.
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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Jstinchy » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:30 pm

Pitched on Saturday.

Currently bubbling away quite nicely, however it smells like boiled eggs!

Is this normal for this yeast/a lager, or have I done something wrong? haha

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Cobnut » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:25 pm

Quite often lager yeasts give off sulphurous aromas/odours.
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:02 pm

Jstinchy wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:30 pm
Pitched on Saturday.

Currently bubbling away quite nicely, however it smells like boiled eggs!

Is this normal for this yeast/a lager, or have I done something wrong? haha
Normal. It will clear.

Lager yeast takes more time to ferment to completion than Ale yeast also, so allow for a few more days to a week to let the yeast finish and clean up after itself.
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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Jstinchy » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:49 pm

I've never used lager yeast before and this is only my 2nd homebrew! So much to learn.

I've ready about 'cold crashing'. Is it simply a case of moving the fermentation bin to a cold area (thinking outside in my shed as temp is about 3/8 degrees atm)?
Do this once fermentation is complete and leave it there for a few days before bottling and kegging?

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Cobnut » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:24 pm

I would recommend cold conditioning lager beers for several weeks. It is probably more normal for this to be done in bulk, but you can do it once you've bottled.
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:51 pm

Cobnut wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:24 pm
I would recommend cold conditioning lager beers for several weeks. It is probably more normal for this to be done in bulk, but you can do it once you've bottled.
You will get split opinions if you ask 'can you lager in the bottle?'

The chemistry changes that occur in a lagering vessel that allow it to drop bright and go all crispy on the palate, will happen in the bottle at the same temperature.

However that sediment has nowhere to go, except the bottom of the bottle and is easily disturbed. lager yeasts are notoriously 'dusty' and easy to shake up.

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:39 am

Lagering may not be all that it is cracked up to be:

https://www.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi ... 02/jib.557
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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by herms bay » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:31 am

I use this all the time and only use 1 pack, there again I brew at 21C,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpswhNvQIY
this changed my life as I couldn't be bothered with lager until I saw this, I use a fermzilla or an "allrounder" and its to die for.

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by McMullan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:58 pm

Silver_Is_Money wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:39 am
Lagering may not be all that it is cracked up to be:

https://www.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi ... 02/jib.557
More likely a fallacy of incomplete evidence. A very limited study by itself. All they're saying really is it's possible lagering on yeast, for the recipe used, in terms of the non-volatile compounds measured, isn't significantly different, based on their analysis, from lagering without yeast, for the recipe used. We'd need considerably more research and independent confirmation before concluding anything meaningful here. Clearly, there are worthwhile benefits to lagering some beers. No pun intended. I'm sure there's a very good reason why lagering is done on the yeast traditionally without any noticeable negative impact on the final product. Even if it's just low temperatures maintaining yeast cell viability that allows it. Very convenient if you're a small brewery or home Brewer short on extra vessels for lagering. Whether it's necessary or not, based on non-volatile compounds, might not matter to some lager brewers.

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Re: Saflager W-34/70

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:28 pm

McMullan wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:58 pm
More likely a fallacy of incomplete evidence. A very limited study by itself. All they're saying really is it's possible lagering on yeast, for the recipe used, in terms of the non-volatile compounds measured, isn't significantly different, based on their analysis, from lagering without yeast, for the recipe used. We'd need considerably more research and independent confirmation before concluding anything meaningful here. Clearly, there are worthwhile benefits to lagering some beers. No pun intended. I'm sure there's a very good reason why lagering is done on the yeast traditionally without any noticeable negative impact on the final product. Even if it's just low temperatures maintaining yeast cell viability that allows it. Very convenient if you're a small brewery or home Brewer short on extra vessels for lagering. Whether it's necessary or not, based on non-volatile compounds, might not matter to some lager brewers.
All potentially believable, sans that (per Wikipedia) Charles Bamforth is an English scientist who specialises in malting and brewing. He is a former President of the Institute of Brewing and Distilling and was also the Anheuser-Busch Endowed 'Professor of Malting and Brewing Sciences' at University of California, Davis between 1999 and 2018. That is a rather sound basis for credibility.
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