DLS

[MARMITE]

I am hoping to brew in the next few days and my order has arrived without the DLS because they are out of stock. Does anyone know the composition so that I can make it up out of the chemicals I have already got?

[MARMITE]

Thanks for the reply Daab. I must have drank too much home brew yesterday or my brain's hurting from too many weeks pouring over water treatment info. I had already got the info on the CBA Factsheet No 1. Anyway this is what I have worked out:
Your link from Chiltern Brewergave mineral additions based on .95gms/ltr which according to my calcs = 4.31818 gms/gal. I wanted to add 3.1gms/gal, so my target mineral additions are as follows:

Calcium 123, Magnesium 3.7, Sodium 51.3, Chloride 121, Sulphate 253.
These are as near as dammit the same values as on the factsheet.

Assumptions: 1gm/gal adds the following:
Gypsum (calcium 50+sulphate 121), Calcium Chloride (calcium 59+chloride 105), Magnesium Sulphate (mag 15 + sulphate 60), Sodium Chloride (sodium 125 + chloride 200).

Assumption: 5gms = 1tsp.
For 5 gals 2tsp gypsum adds calcium 100 + sulphate 242
1/2tsp calcium chloride adds calcium 30 + chloride 52
3/8 tsp sodium chloride adds sodium 46 + chloride 75
1/4 tsp mag sulphate adds mag 4 + sulphate 15

The above additions give the following values against the target:
Mineral Target PPM Additions
Calcium 123 130
Magnesium 3.7 4
Sodium 51.3 46
Chloride 121 127
Sulphate 253 257

It's taken me a while to get this far - perhaps you, or one of the other mathematical scientific genius' on the forum could cast your eye over my calcs and assumptions.

[Graham]

The spirit of DLS is a 2:1 sulphate / chloride ratio. The fact that the ratios in the CBA table are not exactly two to one makes no difference in practice, and the ratios are 2:1 to within the odd per cent or two and is well within the essay tolerance of the salts used. The heritage of DLS probably goes back to the days when they only had slide-rules to work out their mixing ratios with anyway. However, 2:1 is what Murphy was trying to achieve and the actual figures in the CBA article are close enough to that.

I've had a glance at the link to the Chiltern Brewer thread, and it seems that Chiltern Brewer might not have taken the water of crystalisation into account in his figures, but I haven't done the sums to check for sure.

Assuming a 2:1 ratio, and using the calculator HERE to do the sums, to emulate 3.1 grams per gallon of DLS requires:

Gypsum: 1.93 grams / gallon
Calcium cloride: 0.43 grams / gallon
Epsom salts: 0.18 grams / gallon
Common table salt: 0.6 grams / gallon

Giving a total of: 3.14 grams / gallon

This provides:
Calcium: 125 ppm
Magnesium: 3.8 ppm
Sodium: 52 ppm
Sulphate: 252.3 ppm
Chloride: 126.2 ppm.

Which is a near as ninepence to what you are trying to achieve.

There is a link to teaspoon equivalents here: How to Brew Assuming American teaspoons are the same as British ones.

[MARMITE]

Thanks very much for this Graham. Brilliant.

[GTOrichie]

I know it's not 100% on topic but using Graham's water widget it says I need "x" amount of calcium chloride, am I correct in assuming that I can use DLS instead of calcium chloride? and do I use the same amount as the calculator suggests? the reason I ask is I have a bottle of DLS as well as a bottle of CRS here that's nearly out of date that I would like to use up before it becomes useless (I hate throwing stuff out)

[Graham]

I know it's not 100% on topic but using Graham's water widget it says I need "x" amount of calcium chloride, am I correct in assuming that I can use DLS instead of calcium chloride? and do I use the same amount as the calculator suggests? the reason I ask is I have a bottle of DLS as well as a bottle of CRS here that's nearly out of date that I would like to use up before it becomes useless (I hate throwing stuff out)

If you have the sulphate / chloride ratio set to 2:1 in the ratio boxes, then the total of all the ingredients displayed will match DLS. However, the ratio boxes only work in automatic mode.

I can't see DLS going out of date as long as it is kept dry - which has nothing to do with dates - and you can always dry it anyway. I can't see CRS going out of date either, unless you lose some of the dilution water to evaporation, which should not happen if it is tightly sealed.

It could be useful to have some CRS at hand anyway. Boiling and CRS produce different water profiles, and one might match your target better than the other.

I have come up with a simple method for a brewer to determine his or her own water alkalinity using CRS itself as the reagent, thus not having to rely on inaccurate water reports. I'll have to get it peer reviewed by better chemists than me though, preferably by Murphy themselves. The method might require the ownership of a pH meter. It can be done with pH papers, but it might be greedy on them. This might eliminate the inherent disadvantages of amateurs using CRS.

[Chiltern Brewer]

I've had a glance at the link to the Chiltern Brewer thread, and it seems that Chiltern Brewer might not have taken the water of crystalisation into account in his figures, but I haven't done the sums to check for sure.

Yes, I think I am starting to get my head around the chemistry (nearly a year on), but I did take account of the hydrate form of the salts in my calculations. Then I just confused things by listing water as a percentage of the makeup of DLS.

By my reckoning (handwritten notes on an old printout of my post) DLS is roughly:

• Sodium Chloride 19%
  Calcium Chloride 13%
  Calcium Sulphate 62%
  Magnesium Sulphate 5%

Which is basically what you have worked out!

[Graham]

I've had a glance at the link to the Chiltern Brewer thread, and it seems that Chiltern Brewer might not have taken the water of crystalisation into account in his figures, but I haven't done the sums to check for sure.

Yes, I think I am starting to get my head around the chemistry (nearly a year on), but I did take account of the hydrate form of the salts in my calculations. Then I just confused things by listing water as a percentage of the makeup of DLS.

By my reckoning (handwritten notes on an old printout of my post) DLS is roughly:

• Sodium Chloride 19%
  Calcium Chloride 13%
  Calcium Sulphate 62%
  Magnesium Sulphate 5%

Which is basically what you have worked out!

Yes, sorry. I honestly didn't check your figures. In actual fact, afterwards, it was obvious that you had taken it into account, because S. Sandra's figures, that she worked out from your data, was virtually the same as mine.

[Edit] Do you ever drink in the town centre? [/edit]

[Chiltern Brewer]

No, that's quite alright!

Water treatment is a tricky subject - I don't envy you trying to write something for the new book which is both clear and authoritative.

[Edit] Do you ever drink in the town centre? [/edit]

We've talking Wycombe? Ages I would say... mostly drink my own beer at home these days!

[Graham]

We've talking Wycombe? Ages I would say... mostly drink my own beer at home these days!

I've probably asked you that before.

I've taken a liking to the Belle Vue (back of the station). Stumbled across it by accident - had an hour to kill because the trains went wrong, and found four hand-pumps and four beers, all from micros, and changing regularly. I use it quite a bit now; so I've started to drink in there because the town is the easiest and cheapest place to get to and from without driving. I was spending a fortune on taxis when I used to drink at Woobourn Moor regularly, and very often had to get back the following morning to collect my car. I find the Belle Vue a much more sensible option.