Water Issues

[Phil_L]

I live right on the south coast - right by the white cliffs - known to be really chalky water and I am having a messed up time with my last few batches.

Well, I am blaming the water. Here's the skinny - I got back into brewing mid last year - I used to brew in a micro/brewpub when I was a student way back. I started back with ME, an no issues. 10+ batches, from IPA's thru Coffee Imperial Stouts. then I moved to AG - dug out all the full mash kit, and had a go. (cheaper) and it all went a shade to the left. now, in the last few batches I am getting this strange chemically/phenolicy - that is actually hard to drink . I have messed 3 more batches trying to figure it out. Messed a saison, with a beautiful yeast. Killed a 10% IPA. and a neat little amber number recently. they are all showing this flavour. All my ME batches have done really well in tastings here - never had that - so I do wonder of it's a boil issue. boil my liquor before mashing??????

I recently went to a local micro and made 8hl of an american mild http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/ramsgate-d ... acy/94973/, (oxymoron if there is one) - and no issues what so ever. Different water source completely.

HELP!

Suggestions so far, and things I am looking at.

need to get a water filter, need to hard boil with organic acids before running to mash, over sparging, cleanser build up?

grrrr, this is really starting to irritate me

[edit1now]

Sounds like TCP from chlorine or chloramine in your tap water I had to pour away two batches which I'd got as far as bottling because of this - a Bière de garde and a Mild. I think I got it from filling my mash tun and HLT from a newish PVC garden hose. The last few brews I filled from the garden tap with a silicone hose, and made sure I put some metabisulphite in each (= Campden tablet), and while they're still in fermenters I think I've got away with it.

(edit) Are you sanitising anything with bleach at all?

[Jim]

One possible issue is chlorine/choramine, but I would have thought that would have affected your malt extract brews as well. This is best treated by adding 1/2 campden tablet to each 5 gals of liquor.

Chalky water does cause problems with the mash if it's untreated, so you probably need to do something to reduce the carbonates (e.g. boil as you suggest and rack off when cool, or use one of the treatment salts available from HB shops - e.g. CRS).

[Phil_L]

I will go to B&Q and get one of those inline filters. That might get rid of a fair chunk of the nasties.

I have picked up so liquid organic acids from the local micro and a dose rate. That should strip the left overs out. Then a hard boil.

I use the white tub sani (VWP), or peracetic, or hot caustic. I am moving away from the VWP, gradually. I used to use loads of hot caustic, and Peracetic. So will get back to that.

The hoses I use have all got food grade stamps.

it's a headache.

[Phil_L]

Ok,

so what I did'd - 1x inline charcoal filter. £9.98 from B&Q. installed with various lengths of cellar hose. I thought that this might not have the flow capacity, but it did.

I installed a rattail on the propane out, for a bigger boil.

we cleaned the whooooole brewery with hot caustic, and hosed to clean. Then blew down with Peracitic. The one vessel we cleaned with a chlorine based cleaner was tooo strong, and still noticiable, after scrubbing and rinsing. I took a water sample to the local testing lab, conveniently on the way to work. They called to say that there is a higher than normal level of chlorines/chloramines in the water, and they will be calling the waterboard to mention this. When I first installed the filter it was noticiable that the water tasted "different" er, normal.

so, to conclude quickly - the brew is 50% thru and tasting pretty good to say the least. so, thanks to the people that mentioned what to do, and the changes to make.

brew on!

[Madbrewer]

Can you add PH test paper to your collection and get a spoonful of the mash tested for PH once it's started (say ten mins into the mash)? You want the PH right (5.2 or 5.3) and you want the water de-chlorinated. These are seperate issues. The Chloramine is more important to eliminate though. A boiled, left 12 hours & Campden treated water should be chlorine/chloramine free and get rid of your phenolic taste (if it's not an infection.)

Then assured of a TCP free brew you could add 1 tsp of CRS so the mash and see what PH you are coming out with?

The next brew you can alter he CRS to get the PH level right & play with the 'salts' (something I have yet to do myself) to perfect your water a little.

[Mashman]

Phil

I am probably not to far from you, I'm north of Canterbury and my water is very hard as well. I have always struggled with pale beers even using CRS and Daabs kit. My dark beers are good and my version of PoP's stout is VG. I read somewhere on the forum that ASDA's bottled water (Eden Vale?) had the ideal minerals for pale beers. I tried this for my last brew, a strong Carolines ale from GW's book and I was amazed, the beer was outstanding, the best pale beer I have brewed by far and has been praised by all who have tried it. So, I now have to try and refine my water treatment or continue to use ASDA's water and accept the extra 10p a litre on the cost. I brew about 8 x 40lt batchs a year, about half of which would be pale bitters so the extra cost is not outrageous especially considering the quality of the beer.

Which local brewery did you visit?

[Phil_L]

Wow - so much advice! THANKS!

"I am probably not to far from you, I'm north of Canterbury and my water is very hard as well. I have always struggled with pale beers even using CRS and Daabs kit. My dark beers are good and my version of PoP's stout is VG. I read somewhere on the forum that ASDA's bottled water (Eden Vale?) had the ideal minerals for pale beers. I tried this for my last brew, a strong Carolines ale from GW's book and I was amazed, the beer was outstanding, the best pale beer I have brewed by far and has been praised by all who have tried it. So, I now have to try and refine my water treatment or continue to use ASDA's water and accept the extra 10p a litre on the cost. I brew about 8 x 40lt batchs a year, about half of which would be pale bitters so the extra cost is not outrageous especially considering the quality of the beer."

Yeah, dark beers have been really successful for me. I am near Kingsdown, right by the old Tompsons brewery. If you want to come down for a brew in - PM me. I am gonna get this thing cracked.

The brewery was the Ramsgate- Gadds Brewery - the release of the Dark Conspiracy. Something that I brewed with a good friend, homebrew buddy at Eddies Brewery. We nailed an 18 on friday night in the Montifore in Ramsgate, friday night - jeeze, ow. If you see it, give it a whirl. Pale Malt, Crystal 55L, Crystal Rye, Chocolate, Amber, Roast, Melanodin and Aromatic Malts, with UK cascade and US Willamette. 4.9% Very tasty beer indeed, and drinks soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy. Kinda American Mild, with a nice European influence. I have some bottles and a recent batch of a Port Brewing Hop 15 Clone - my Hopasaurus X - a 10% All american hopped IIPA.

The next batch is another batch of a monster mash - with a shit load of £ - so I don't want to fark it up.

I have taken on board what all have written and thanks to all!

[Mashman]

Phil

Dark Conspiracy was on at my local, The Butchers Arms at Herne on Sunday. A very nice pint indeed, so that'll be your name on the pump clip then?. If you haven't been to this pub try to get there, all the beers are on gravity and in superb condition.

[Phil_L]

Will be there tomorrow. C'mon, come have a beer. I get in the butcher as often as I can, love the place.

I heard that Martin had bought two 9's.

Thanks for the comments, and yeah 'tis I on the clip.

[Mashman]

Phil
Got held up and didn't get there till 9.45, Martyn said you had been in. Let me know when you are going next. The Larkins Porter will be on Thursday, this is not to be missed. Your beer has been reviewed here http://www.pubsandbeer.co.uk

[Phil_L]

Thanks! shame I missed you tho. I had a double IPA for you.

Will catch up soon.

P.