CRS Treatment

[PureGuiness]

Ok, so I've got my water report and I've also double checked the alkalinity using a test kit so I know that's fairly accurate. The thing is that when I use CRS my Sulphate and Chloride values go through the roof (133.4 SO4 and 92.6 Cl).

I know one solution around this would be to boil and replace the calcium using gypsum, although this seems a bit wasteful seeing as I've got naturally hard water anyway.

So my question to the resident experts is what is the downside to higher values of sulphate and chloride in the liquor? Is it going to be a problem or is the main thing to get right the residual alkalinity?

[PureGuiness]

I found a reference that suggests that the levels are ok although not ideal.

# Sulfate, SO4-S brewing range: 50-150 for normally bitter beers and 150-350 for very bitter beers, will accentuate hop bitterness, making it seem drier and crisper. Levels >400 ppm and the bitterness becomes harsh.
# Chloride, Cl brewing range: 0-250 ppm accentuates flavor and fullness of beer.

Hopefully it will be ok. Only time will tell. According to my calculations, after CRS treatment, I should not need to make any other alterations other than using 1/2 crushed campden tablet for chlorine. I'll give it a go and see how I get on, unless anyone has further suggestions?

[Dr.Evil]

I think a high sulphate value can add a bit of a bitter/sour twang to the brew. I have reasonably hard water (210 mg/l alkalinity as CaCO3) and used to use hydrochloric acid to reduce the carbonate. This results in high chloride but low sulphate. This lead to smooth brews with a good malt profile and a reasonable hop profile if you added plenty of them. Having recently switched to CRS, Im not sure I like the tang that the sulphate from the sulphuric acid brings. Also, it seems to make different brews all taste a bit similar and a bit "homebrewey". I am thinking of switching back to hydrochloric acid and maybe adding just a small amount of gypsum or epsom salts as a compromise position.

So basically I think that if you have a soft to medium-hard water and use a bit of CRS, the balance between the hydrochloric and sulfuric acids in it is about right. But if you have hard water and are adding around 1ml/l (like me), you end up with a bit too much sulphate (at least to my taste).

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Edited to say that Im now doubting what I have written above. CRS seems to highlight all the flavours in the brew. I think the "homebrew twang" I am referring to above might be the S04 yeast flavour coming through more. My two most recent brews using CRS were with US 05 and Nottingham. Both had a good flavour with no twang.

[Aleman]

If you consider the published profiles for waters around Burton on Trent you'll see sulphate levels quoted of around the 800 mg per litre. Therefore the levels that you were quoting a not high at all, unless you're brewing a pilsner that is. What you ought to consider is perhaps the sulphate chloride ratio, where the sulphate level is two or three times higher than chloride you will be accentuating hop bitterness. Where the chloride level is two or three times higher than sulphate you will be accentuating the malt profile of the beer. Even if you are in an area with a high level of calcium in the water once you've treated with CRS to reduce the alkalinity, you should then consider adding either calcium sulphate or calcium chloride to adjust the beer balance way you want it to be.

[PureGuiness]

Thanks for the replies. Very useful.

So given my water profile as it stands it looks like it's balanced a bit over to the accentuating the hop bitterness and adding Calcium chloride might produce a more balanced beer and let the malt shine out a bit? Would this also drop the Ph slightly?

[Dr. Dextrin]

My water is fairly alkaline (about 260 ppm typically). I used to boil it, with pretty good results, although I could never quite hit the target mash pH. I reckon there was always a bit too much alkalinity left after boiling.

Since boiling was taking a lot of time and effort, more recently I've gone over to CRS. I'm hitting the mash pH now spot-on, but I don't think the beer is as good. I'd describe it as a lack of palette clarity - the flavours just seem more muddy and muddled up together (maybe harshness would be another description). I can only think this must be due to the high sulphate and chloride that results if you use CRS and start with a high alkalinity. Although CRS is definitely a lot more convenient, I don't think I can live with the taste long-term.

I'm planning to try adding gypsum or calcium chloride to see if it makes any difference. However, I suspect that the ultimate treatment would have to be the original boiling method to remove as much bicarbonate as possible, followed by a Salifert test and CRS treatment to get the alkalinity down to where it needs to be. That way, the sulphate/chloride levels should be manageable. What a lot of fuss, though!