Mash PH

[trucker5774]

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in grain brewing.

I have always been pretty happy with the way my beer turns out and have always lived around the same area which has soft water. I have never gone as far as analysing my water or sending off or even reading anything into the water company's report. I normally just use a campden tablet and a teaspoon of gypsum. The mash has generally (when I bothered checking) been around 5.2 to 5.4.

Today's brew is a test run with NO TREATMENT WHATSOEVER Checked the mash at what appears to be 4.9 to 5.0.

I have been really lazy about water (sorry, brewing liquor). I am fascinated by the chemistry and WILL get round to it one day. It has started me wondering just how much variation there will have been over the last million brews I have done and how much the water will have related to any "problems" a may have had with flavours etc. I know it's more involved than just the mash PH, but just wondered how many others have the same "relaxed" attitude to water that I have.

Anyway, the point of the post is more that I have a mash PH of 5.0 and have made no treatments. Lets see how it turns out.........it's a pale elderflower heavy summer ale between 4.5 and 5% ABV.

[Kev888]

I normally add a campden tablet for chlorine/chloromines, CRS for total alkalinity (to get the mash PH right) and gypsum because I've a vaugue idea that I should (it ensures the mash isn't deficient in it, or something like that which I long ago forgot about). my water report is fairly useless so i measure total alkalinity with a test kit.

But I would say if you can't taste chlorine effects in the finished beer and are getting the right PH anyway then it doesn't sound like theres a great deal to worry about. The only thing that'd concern me is that my water company can occasionally bring their water from somewhere else and it all changes, so I like to test it and add the cheap campden tablet anyway.

Cheers
kev

[danbrew]

I have never done anything with my water and my beer (when I get time to make it and i don't screw up in other departments) tastes fine - even nice... So I think I might even be lazier than you trucker... And I always (when I bother checking) get a good pH.

I do plan to do something with it one day, I just don't know what! Does the campden/ gypsum just go straight in the mash?

[trucker5774]

"I do plan to do something with it one day, I just don't know what! Does the campden/ gysum just go straight in the mash?[/quote]

Now I know gysum is something quite different and where you choose to dispense yours is up to you

...........back to serious answers. The campden (or even just a half) is to treat the whole water to remove chloramine. Boiling will remove most of the chlorine. A level teaspoon of gypsum into the mash and one in the boil, I believe is to ensure enough calcium. In soft water I think it also helps in raising the PH ?

[greenxpaddy]

I would guess your water comes from the same source as me.

For an ale the recommended water treatment for our water profile is :

For 40l water I need 4.5g table salt, 7.5g calcium sulphate, 15g Calcium chloride, 4g epsom salts, 1.5g chalk

[danbrew]

"I do plan to do something with it one day, I just don't know what! Does the campden/ gysum just go straight in the mash?

Now I know gysum is something quite different and where you choose to dispense yours is up to you

I noticed and edited but you obviously beat me to it!!!

...........back to serious answers. The campden (or even just a half) is to treat the whole water to remove chloramine. Boiling will remove most of the chlorine. A level teaspoon of gypsum into the mash and one in the boil, I believe is to ensure enough calcium. In soft water I think it also helps in raising the PH ?

OK, cheers trucker, I get some and 'whack some off in the mash then'!!!

[trucker5774]

I would guess your water comes from the same source as me.

For an ale the recommended water treatment for our water profile is :

For 40l water I need 4.5g table salt, 7.5g calcium sulphate, 15g Calcium chloride, 4g epsom salts, 1.5g chalk

Thats interesting ...where did you get that info, or is it as a result of testing?

It's close to what little treatment I have used over the last few years. It will be good to see if this brew turns out much different to the last few.

[greenxpaddy]

http://www.unitedutilities.com/waterquality.aspx

Here is the full report for my postcode

Analysis Typical Value UK/EU limit Units
Hardness level very soft
Hardness Clarke 1.750 Clarke
Aluminium 13.2 200 µg Al/l
Calcium 8.05 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total 0.52 mg/l
Residual chlorine - Free 0.44 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 0 number/100ml
Colour <0.743 20 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity 74.8 2500 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper 0.0279 2 mg Cu/l
E.coli 0 0 number/100ml
Iron 12.6 200 µg Fe/l
Lead <0.491 25 µg Pb/l
Magnesium 1.34 mg Mg/l
Manganese <3.49 50 µg Mn/l
Nitrate <1.10 50 mg NO3/l
Sodium 7.52 200 mg Na/l

Detailed report

Date: 17/06/2011

Water supply name: Haweswater Shuttleworth

Water supply code: Z227

Parameter Min Average Max Units Regulatory Standard Number of samples % failed
2,4-D <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
Aldrin <0.0020 <0.0020 <0.0020 µg/l 0.03 8 0.00
Aluminium 4.60 13.2 70.3 µg Al/l 200 24 0.00
Ammonium (ammonia and ammonium ions) <0.0051 <0.0174 <0.0328 mg NH4/l 0.5 12 0.00
Antimony 0.100 0.131 0.180 µg Sb/l 5 8 0.00
Arsenic 0.190 0.248 0.360 µg As/l 10 8 0.00
Asulam <0.0070 <0.0096 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
Atrazine <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
Benzene <0.0349 <0.0349 <0.0349 µg/l 1 17 0.00
Benzo(a)pyrene <0.0020 <0.0020 <0.0020 µg/l 0.01 9 0.00
Boron <0.0021 <0.0076 0.0134 mg B/l 1 15 0.00
Bromate 0.300 <0.446 <0.470 µg BrO3/l 10 7 0.00
Cadmium <0.0200 <0.0350 <0.0400 µg Cd/l 5 8 0.00
Calcium 6.90 8.05 9.32 mg Ca/l 24 0.00
Chloride 4.86 7.81 10.6 mg Cl/l 250 16 0.00
Chromium <0.160 <0.216 0.270 µg Cr/l 50 8 0.00
Residual chlorine - Total 0.15 0.52 0.88 mg/l 59 0.00
Residual chlorine - Free 0.03 0.44 0.73 mg/l 59 0.00
Colony Counts after 2 days at 37 deg C 0 0 2 number/1ml 24 0.00
Colony counts after 3 days at 22 deg C 0 1 9 number/1ml 24 0.00
Coliform bacteria 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 59 0.00
Colour <0.390 <0.743 1.14 mg/l Pt/Co scale 20 24 0.00
Conductivity 64.0 74.8 112 uS/cm at 20oC 2500 12 0.00
Copper 0.0037 0.0279 0.105 mg Cu/l 2 8 0.00
Clostridium perfringens (including spores) 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 24 0.00
Cyanide <0.698 <0.970 <1.23 µg CN/l 50 16 0.00
1,2-dichloroethane <0.103 <0.103 <0.103 µg/l 3 17 0.00
Dieldrin <0.0030 <0.0030 <0.0030 µg/l 0.03 4 0.00
Diuron <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 5 0.00
E.coli 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 59 0.00
Enterococci 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 7 0.00
Fluoride 0.0200 <0.0246 0.0400 mg F/l 1.5 8 0.00
Fluroxypyr <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
Glyphosate <0.0060 <0.0073 0.0110 µg/l 0.1 14 0.00
Total hardness 9 10 11 mg Ca/l 24 0.00
Heptachlor epoxide <0.0020 <0.0020 <0.0020 µg/l 0.03 1 0.00
Heptachlor <0.0010 <0.0010 <0.0010 µg/l 0.03 1 0.00
Iron 3.66 12.6 65.9 µg Fe/l 200 24 0.00
Lead <0.120 <0.491 1.63 µg Pb/l 25 8 0.00
Magnesium 1.00 1.34 2.20 mg Mg/l 24 0.00
Manganese <0.270 <3.49 25.5 µg Mn/l 50 24 0.00
MCPA <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
MCPB <0.0121 <0.0121 <0.0121 µg/l 0.1 12 0.00
Mecoprop <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 8 0.00
Mercury <0.0100 <0.0126 <0.0175 µg Hg/l 1 16 0.00
Nickel <0.500 <0.588 0.800 µg Ni/l 20 8 0.00
Nitrite <0.0049 <0.0062 <0.0095 mg NO2/l 0.5 12 0.00
Nitrate <0.443 <1.10 2.35 mg NO3/l 50 12 0.00
(Nitrate)/50 plus (nitrite)/3 0.0000 0.0208 0.0470 mg/l 1 12 0.00
Odour (quantitative) 0 0 0 dilution number at 25oC 0 11 0.00
Total organic carbon 0.740 1.17 1.55 mg C/l 15 0.00
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (sum of 4 PAHs) 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 µg/l 0.1 9 0.00
Pesticides - Total 0.0000 0.0006 0.0133 µg/l 0.5 51 0.00
Hydrogen ion (pH) 7.02 7.23 7.65 pH value 9.5 46 0.00
Radioactivity gross alpha 0.0120 0.0188 0.0260 Bq/l 0.1 8 0.00
Radioactivity gross beta 0.0910 0.147 0.218 Bq/l 1 8 0.00
Selenium <0.210 <0.296 0.400 µg Se/l 10 8 0.00
Sodium 4.79 7.52 15.7 mg Na/l 200 24 0.00
Sulphate 7.07 20.4 42.2 mg SO4/l 250 16 0.00
Taste (quantitative) 0 0 0 dilution number at 25oC 0 11 0.00
Tetrachloromethane <0.0353 <0.0413 <0.0601 µg/l 3 9 0.00
Trihalomethanes - Total 0.0000 25.6 36.1 µg/l 100 9 0.00
Tetrachloroethene and trichloroethene 0.0000 0.0128 0.115 µg/l 10 9 0.00
Turbidity <0.09 <0.12 0.41 NTU 4 24 0.00



The report details drinking water quality for the last 12 months. The information is updated weekly.


The table hasn't come out very well here...but you get the gist - all samples for the last year every week.

Of course they could just ignore some off the wall samples, but if they do get inbetween their high and low readings 99% of the time then its easy enough to use the info to get an idea of water treatment pitching requirements. I assessed the differnce between their high and low levels and the difference in treatment quantities required was not much. Broadly speaking similar amounts of each required.

You can do it yourself by taking the data from the table and putting it in the calculator.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

If you need to change the hardness units from Clarke degrees you can get an equivalent ppm if you go to 'water hardness' wikipedia.

[trucker5774]

Cheers, Paddy.

[GARYSMIFF]

Trucker when I started with my RIMS I just used what came out of the tap albeit I had a Carbon filter attached, I have this year been adding CRS as required and Gypsum but did find my brews had a on the side of the tounge fiz so stopped the gypsum and that stopped the fiz, but I must say my brews have much improved with the water treatmen but dont listen to me I dont follow beer styles or rules but do write it down just in case.

[trucker5774]

Smiffy, I hear what you are saying. I will do something when I settle into the new house. We are quite lucky here with the water I guess. Hasn't the water in your area been through about 1000 bladders, flowed into the Thames, been desalinated, sent to the lake district and then back to Essex for some chlorine before you get it?

[GARYSMIFF]

lol even the water has to "MAN UP" down here

[GARYSMIFF]

That said I have not been checking the mash PH but if I did not sure i would change it my beer work out great, I did yesterday order some strips so I can say Ho Hum or that will do

[trucker5774]

I got a bag of 20? strips about 2 years ago. I still have 15 of them

[GARYSMIFF]

Thats the spirit, now you have made me remember I have 40 Ltrs of Apple juice sitting around the corner that I have not built yet.

TC with barbadian sugar me thinks 1st thing b4 the school run