Water Treatment. Very Confused!!

[Nofolkandchance]

No , the exact readings from Murphys are Alkalinity =38 (Raw result) Recommended Target 0 - 50 Theoratical Result through Treatment = 38

The water company readings are as HC03 Minimum = 31, Average = 63, Maximum = 96. Divide by 1.22 to convert to CaC03 (So im told),
Therefore the water companies alkalinity as CaC03 is Min =25.41 , Ave = 51.64 , Max = 78.69

Thats if the calculations are correct?

[vacant]

The 1.22 factor is mentioned in the brupaks sheet but that also states "Original alkalinity in ppm x 0.4 = Calcium in ppm" so I'm perplexed by the Calcium being 47

e.g. my old water report has alkalinity as CaCO3 of 277 and Ca of 124. (277 x0.4 = 111 so 0.4 works for my water).

[gnutz2]

Quick update.

I did as suggested and had a sample of my tap water analysed at Murphy’s. I received a somewhat belated report yesterday and the readings fall into the Minimum banded zone in the published Minimum, Average and Maximum readings from Northumbrian Water. Confusing to me as I was expecting it to fall in the average zone but not so!
Anyway the 2 main results I should look for according to Brupak were as follows;
Alkalinity as CaC03 = 38
Calcium as Ca = 47.20
Not sure what impact the other readings such as hardness; nitrate, chloride etc will have (are these important, I don’t know???)

Anyway, Murphys suggestions are 21.75 grams of DWB per 25 litres of beer to be made, mixed in the mash.
What’s the learned opinion on this? I assume It’s a quick fix as “actual” readings will no doubt change on a frequent basis with having the water company quoting Min Ave Max values

Edit: I meant DWB

Well bugger me, i sent my water sample off to Murphy well before i posted the suggestion and as yet have no report in post or email

Dont be so sure your water changes all the time , i test my water hardness every time i brew and since i bought the alkalinity tester about 4 months ago its never changed from 85 CaC03.

I dont copy?

I treat ALL my water with DLS, so if im using 36l of water in total i'll treat for 36l and end up with 23l in the fermenter.

So like your example, add 11l worth of DLS to the grain but after that i would add 25l worth of DLS to the boil.

Murphys quote for a mineral profile of the wort in the FV, therefore if you treat for the total volume of liquor after the boil the minerals will have been concentrated, and you will end up with a higher mineral profile than you were expecting.

If you are copying the mineral profile form a region then ALL the water will contain minerals, surely?

That is always assuming that the brewers are actually using the mineral profile that is quoted in the homebrew literature

As you can see above i dont use murphys suggestions because i've not received them yet. I normally use Grahams water treatment calculator.

Does this mean i still need to treat for the total water or do i treat for the water in the FV.

One more point, if the beer tastes good then why the need to treat the water? Well my pale beers taste great and my dark beers taste great but my bitters never hit the spot. Using grahams calculator has improved them a lot but i'm still looking for higher enlightenment.

[Aleman]

My water didn't change alkalinity for the best part of 15 years . nice constant (?) 22-25mg/l . . . . then two years ago it shot up to 135mg/l couple of months later was 58mg/l . . . now back down to 25mg/l. so it is a very unpredictable event, and why I always check before brewing.

Murphys(or Brupaks) instructions say something along the lines of Treat the total liquor volume with AMS (aka CRS) to reduce the alkalinity to where you want it to be, then add DWB (or DLS) to the grist for the Final Beer volume.

Personally I am not a fan of the 'One Size fits all' approach to water treatment that this gives, and prefer to use Hydrochloric and Sulphuric acids for alkalinity reduction (Choice depends of beer style characteristics) then calcium chloride or gypsum and magnesium sulphate to correct the calcium levels.

If I'm brewing a dark beer I either use some artificially created high alkalinity water (chalk dissolved in weak carbonic acid) mixed with my normal tap water, or boost it with some sodium bicarbonate. The choice depends on how much I want to raise the alkalinity and what that would do to the sodium levels if I went with Bicarbonate.

I think chasing a particular regional water profile is an exercise in futility, as it is much better to understand the principles behind water treatment.

1. Adjust alkalinity depending on beer style Pale beers low <50, Darker beers can be up to 125-150
2. Adjust calcium to 100-150
   1. Use gypsum for hoppy beers
   2. use calcium chloride for malty beers

Adjusting the alkalinity to the correct level depending on the amount of dark malts means the mash pH falls in the right place (dark malts are more acidic so dark beers can tolerate more alkalinity)

You need the calcium to be > 100 as there are a lot of brewing related reactions that require a certain level of calcium as mine is naturally low I normally have to boost it.

A sulphate level higher than chloride emphasises a dryer more bitter palate thereby boosting the perception of hop bitterness
A chloride level higher than sulphate emphasises a rounder more fuller sweeter mouth feel boosting maltiness.

However, none of this means anything unless you are consistently producing good beer without worrying about water treatment, as there are much more important factors involved in brewing all grain beers that have a far greater impact on beer flavour than water treatment

[Eric]

Aleman, that was a treat to read, thank you.

[gnutz2]

Thanks for the info Aleman

Its just occurred to me that i've never made a bitter with a chloride biased water. I know what my next brews going to be now.

[Nofolkandchance]

Unless im wrong, It appears that Murphys have my alkalinity test result spot on.

I picked up a Salifert test kit today and the first test endpoint reading was 0.84 mils on the syringe = 0.79 alkalinity in meq/L (whatever that is), multiply this by 50 as informed, comes to 39.5 as CaC03

The second test, endpoint came out at 0.86 = 0.67 meq/L x 50 = 33.5 as CaC03 with the third and last test being exactly the same as the first at 39.5.

This compares very accuratley with the alkalinity of 38 as tested by Murphys.