when using grahams calculator

[paulg]

I have 2 questions
1 when I set the water treatment calculator up I input crs as carbonate reducing method and the calculator gives residual alkalinity as 20 .I wish to brew a mild and I think(maybe wrongly) that the alkalinity should be between 100-150 ppm
should I change this box or when I select target liquor as mild does the calculator adjust this even though the box remains the same figure? the total CRS required looks to me to set residual alkalinity at 20 maybe the additions then balance back the liquor

2 I have not got any calcium chloride at the moment can I use calcium sulphate for the total figures specified (ie calcium sulphate + calcium chloride)

grahams book brew you own real ale seems to suggest you can substitute calcium sulphate and calcium chloride
I hope to brew tomorrow and my other option is to use DLS salts and treat my water with CRS to 100-150 ppm

what to do ????

[Eric]

Yes, I too would like to know the answer to question 1. I think you are right and must start with a higher level of alkalinity, else you won't get the right pH at the start of the mash. The level will depend upon the kind and quantity of darker malts and the ratio of grain to liquor. What concerns me about this is if you were to sparge to the end with the same highly alkaline water, by when, the grain's acidity will surely be long since neutralised.

Yes, calcium is needed and sulphate will emphasise hop flavours while chloride the malt. there is slightly more calcium in the sulphate than an equal weight of the chloride but you may be disappointed that the end product won't be malty.

[paulg]

As I am still unsure of my answers to question above I have gone down the safe? method and treated my water with CRS to 120 ppm and used dls in very small quantity as per brupack website(1 gram in mash 3 grams in boil .
so far mash ph was spot on 5.2 ,although I am usually about right without any additions to my liquor when brewing dark beers ,so we will see how it turns out
brewing g wheelers hook norton hooky mild

[Dave S]

Read Note 1, paragraph 2. It states that the residual Alkalinity level is set to 20, which is the minimum amount for a bitter. However, if the target liquor requires more than this, the residual figure of 20 is ignored and the target figure is used in the calculation instead.

[paulg]

yes I read that but if I change the beer type to say mild the figure remains at 20 .do I need to manually alter it in the box or does the software automatically do it even though it doesnt change the displayed value and if I look at the quantity of crs required it appears to take the alkalinity to 20 from my inputted water figures and brupack website I wonder if you then add back salts to rebuild the correct profile
may be I am just over thinking this

[Dave S]

yes I read that but if I change the beer type to say mild the figure remains at 20 .do I need to manually alter it in the box or does the software automatically do it even though it doesnt change the displayed value and if I look at the quantity of crs required it appears to take the alkalinity to 20 from my inputted water figures and brupack website I wonder if you then add back salts to rebuild the correct profile
may be I am just over thinking this

No, unless you want a specific level of alkalinity which you you would replace the residual of 20 with, the calculator does it automatically. As note 1 says, if the target liquor requires more alkalinity, as in the case of mild, porter and stout, the residual figure of 20 is completely ignored and the calculator uses an ideal figure for that liquor profile - at least that's how I read it.

[orlando]

When I started using it I boiled the water to reduce carbonate, the moment I clicked in to the radial to say that this was my method of reducing carbonate, the figure changed to 20. When I read the accompanying notes they admit that this is a nominal figure, best guess if you like, as there is no way of knowing exactly how much temporary hardness has been removed. So in effect this is the default for CRS or boiling. The software then uses the other parameters to adjust the necessary carbonate for the profile of beer you are looking to brew. In short ignore that number it doesn't matter.

[paulg]

thanks for clearing that up guys.I will use the calculator next time I brew as I need to order some calcium chloride as well as grain and hops

[Dave S]

When I started using it I boiled the water to reduce carbonate, the moment I clicked in to the radial to say that this was my method of reducing carbonate, the figure changed to 20. When I read the accompanying notes they admit that this is a nominal figure, best guess if you like, as there is no way of knowing exactly how much temporary hardness has been removed. So in effect this is the default for CRS or boiling. The software then uses the other parameters to adjust the necessary carbonate for the profile of beer you are looking to brew. In short ignore that number it doesn't matter.

Quite so.

Makes you wonder why it's in there really.

[paulg]

I have one other concern my water report does not give a figure for sodium .the water calculator gives an addition of 5.08 grams of table salt for 40 litres of liquor for 25 litre brew (I lose 20 % to evap per hour)as I dont know my real level of sodium would it be better to not add any at all or go with the addition and hope it is not too salty?
I

[Dave S]

I have one other concern my water report does not give a figure for sodium .the water calculator gives an addition of 5.08 grams of table salt for 40 litres of liquor for 25 litre brew (I lose 20 % to evap per hour)as I dont know my real level of sodium would it be better to not add any at all or go with the addition and hope it is not too salty?
I

Strange that sodium is not included. You could send a sample off to Murphy's for analysis. 5 grams isn't an over-the-top amount, though it probably should be less. The sodium addition for my liquor brewing 23 l stout is somewhere around 1 point something grams.

[paulg]

yes when I had my local water analysed there was no figure for sodium although there was a box on the form for it
when I asked I was told they couldnt test for it ,but my greek was not good enough to find out if it was because it was too small a quantity to measure or they werent able too do so.
I could send a sample to murphys as I haqve a friend coming to england at the end of the month so they could post it to murphys and murphys could send me a print out of the results

[Dave S]

yes when I had my local water analysed there was no figure for sodium although there was a box on the form for it
when I asked I was told they couldnt test for it ,but my greek was not good enough to find out if it was because it was too small a quantity to measure or they werent able too do so.
I could send a sample to murphys as I haqve a friend coming to england at the end of the month so they could post it to murphys and murphys could send me a print out of the results

Sounds like a plan.