Creating Your Brewing Water.

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
Post Reply
User avatar
PeeBee
Under the Table
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Creating Your Brewing Water.

Post by PeeBee » Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:19 am

A while ago I decided I wanted to tie down my brewing water. Remove the "baggage" that gets attached, cut through the kilos of B*** S*** associated with it, etc. I created the "Defuddler" spreadsheet and secured my place in (contemporary) notoriety (it can be downloaded from my signature below).

But, having caught the bug for this sort of thing, I wanted to take it further! Design water for particular beers, using my own water (described by the "Defuddler") as the base. But of course, create something to make it available for everyone to use (and elevate my notoriety some more?).

First stop (and I mean stop!) was to start down the "honey trap" that is "RA" ("residual alkalinity"). It started off well, then started to fall apart. Here's a good post that summarises the problems:

Grab the RA targets from Recipe Editor to Water Calc - Brewers' Friend Forums

"Chthon" on the THBForum provided me with links to work by Colin Colby. This is an example (from which you can access much more):

Brewing Liquor for Dark Beers (30–40 SRM)

He has an interesting approach (convinced me to show support by buying his book!), but his approach is perhaps a little too simplistic? That link above, his approach gets more complicated! Due to what this graph describes:
Roast Malts.jpg
Roast Malts.jpg (41.81 KiB) Viewed 3630 times
Colin employs an interesting way of dealing with roast malts to bring them in line.

What more can I find?



I quite like the stuff by John Palmer, in its global coverage sense ... his infatuation with "RA" means I'm not interested in the bulk of what he says! I've not started on mash pH estimation, may not even go there (like in Colin Colby's stuff).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Downloads are not available while they undergo enhancement and modification ... 1/1/2025

User avatar
PeeBee
Under the Table
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Creating Your Brewing Water.

Post by PeeBee » Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am

This was one of the John Palmer slides he posted on the Web that had lured me into the "RA" blackhole!
Adjusting Water.jpg
Adjusting Water.jpg (109.21 KiB) Viewed 3349 times
Okay, so I quickly learnt the "RA" stuff was complete hokum in the home-brewing world, especially when connected with Beer Colour. But there were things to like about this arrangement:

Beer Flavour and Sulphate/Chloride influence is reasonably well accepted. Maybe drop the importance of the "ratio" bit as it is a source of argument.

The "Beer Structure" and Calcium level pairing is particularly interesting, because unlike many other water comparisons it links a seemingly global attitude to water for brewing in one place: It's covering "anaemic" waters (such as used in "American" or "New World" beers, that might even be built from RO or distilled water) to full-on ("firm") British brewing waters such as built with Graham Wheeler's water profiles. Maybe change the "Calcium" to "TDS" (not then making any assumptions about the role of any particular ion)? But at least it's not describing "Hardness" anymore!

Beer Colour? Having poo-pooed "RA", could malt acidity take its place? I think an American forum user ("Silver-is-Money") might have some answers there? He's done loads with this "DI-pH" business which I imagine to be on the same lines?


The "Cube" I'd earmarked as a very visual means of displaying a water profile, but it would be difficult to represent on paper. Triangular graphs were another I had to push aside 'cos all three axes must have something "common" linking them (so they can be considered as parts or percentages of a whole). I couldn't come up with anything. So, a common two axes graph with the third axis as a "slider" bar must do?


Do remember: I'm trying to create a tool to create water profiles with the minimum of effort. A visual tool for preference? Escape from this crazy weighing of salts to two decimal places of a gram (just one decimal place, even none, or back to teaspoons, or all of them!). Eliminate dependance on arcane "technologies" that are so incompatible with modern techniques (yeah, so I don't like "Hardness" and "as CaCO3", but you all know that by now?).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Downloads are not available while they undergo enhancement and modification ... 1/1/2025

User avatar
PeeBee
Under the Table
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Creating Your Brewing Water.

Post by PeeBee » Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:01 pm

And ... after a few days I get a regular piece by Brad (Beersmith) entitled "Calcium and Beer Structure in Beer Brewing". Amazing how these "coincidences" work. Two-year-old article available >here<.

Nosing about the Web turns up loads of scary stuff! By AJDelange as can be expected (he has a bit of reputation with this stuff) ... e.g. Differences in malt acidity calculations - Homebrew Talk. And to really terrify your socks off there's Kai Troester: Beer color, alkalinity and mash pH - Braukaiser (Watch-out ... "Residual Alkalinity" zone!).

It's not going to be a Stroll-in-the-Park this caper, is it?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Downloads are not available while they undergo enhancement and modification ... 1/1/2025

User avatar
PeeBee
Under the Table
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Creating Your Brewing Water.

Post by PeeBee » Fri Aug 30, 2024 10:59 am

More scary stuff! I'm only referencing them here so I can remove them from my computer desktop without fear of never being able to find them again. Who knows, one day I might be able to read and understand them.
The effect of brewing water and grist composition on the pH of the mash
Alkalinity, Hardness, Residual Alkalinity and Malt Phosphate: Factors in the Establishment of Mash pH
A Homebrewing Perspective on Mash pH III: Distilled-Water pH and Buffering Capacity of the Grist

The latter was referenced in this forum post, dotted with words of wisdom from someone I have plenty of time for ("Silver is Money").
Data taken into account in Brewers'Friend and BrewFather vs the data exposed by the work of Riffe and Spencer in 2018 - Homebrew Talk Forum

Reference only. If it does your head in ... hey, it does that to mine too!

[EDIT: Missed this one, but you have to pay for it: Influence of Strike Water Alkalinity and Hardness on Mash pH and more stuff by "Silver is Money" (think I've already posted it): Grab the RA targets from Recipe Editor to Water Calc]
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Downloads are not available while they undergo enhancement and modification ... 1/1/2025

Post Reply