Android App for Liquor Treatment - testers please :D

[greenxpaddy]

If I enter these values in Grahams calc

Rammie profile

Typically

Ca 8mg/L
Mg 1.4mg/L
Na 7.7mg/L
SO4 22mg/L
Cl 8 mg/L
Hardness 10mg Ca/L 1.75 degrees Clarke

I get for a lager after balancing: these additions for 45L

Lager profile

Add – per 45L

Salt 0g
Gypsum 1.5g
CaCl 4.5g
Epsom 0.3g
Chalk 0.7g


Your app gives these figures

Salt 0g
Gypsum 2.2g
CaCl 2.2g
Epsom 0.3g
Chalk 0.7g

Its easy to use. Only thought is for water treatment its well ahead of the brew day considerations normally and I'll generally do it whilst planning the recipe and would normally be at the PC where its easier to enter . Very useful though. Not sure why your balanced figures are out

[Aleman]

Lager 'requires' low alkalinity water with Low sulphate . . . So I'm rather confused as to why both of these want to add gypsum and Epsom salts as well as chalk

[Bobba]

Alright greenxpaddy.
Having trouble trying to reproduce ur values here - not sure what u mean by Hardness 10mg Ca/L 1.75 degrees Clarke
As per the values, this calc does do things a little bit differently as far as balancing SO4 and Cl. As far as I understand, the absolute values of SO4 and Cl are irrelevant, but it's the ratio that counts. My calc adds calcium to your water (in the form of cacl and gypsum) and tries its best to match the ratio rather than worry about the absolute values of these two. You'll therefore definitely end up with the calcium value you entered for the target profile.

Aleman - fair enough. It purely depends on the target profile that's entered. Maybe the target lager profile is a bit generous on the ions...
Ca 50, Mg 2, Na 0, CO3 15, SO4 44.1, Cl 44.1
without knowing paddy's CO3 value (alkalinity/hardness) I cant really comment - but I'd be surprised if the CO3 profile in his water really was below 15

[greenxpaddy]

We have very soft water here. that said the additions for 45L are not significant and you probably could do without....though the whole point was to help Bobba with the test of his app to see if it correlates.

Just double checked its 10mg Calcium per litre, or 25mg Calcium Carbonate per litre for that hardness in Clarke degrees. Does that make the Co3 15mg then? - i.e. all the calcium in the water is from the carbonate? Sounds about right looking at the periodic table, the weight of the carbonate to the calcium is 1.5 times Ca weight.

Edit:

Some may wonder why the Hardness factor is 10mg Ca when the Rammie report is actually 8mg Ca. This is because the hardness is specified as

"The hardness is indicated by a calculation where both calcium and magnesium values are reported as mg/L (ppm) (Ca x 2.5) + (Mg x 4.12)= Hardness in mg/L"

So the hardness is equivalent to 10mg Ca but actually in the water there are Magnesium salts adding to the hardness. So therefore the weight of CO3 can be deduced as 1.5 x Ca value of 8mg from the report = 12mg/L presuming all Ca is in carbonate form.

BALLS

I have been using the wrong hardness figures on the calculator - putting in the Ca milligrams not the whole calcium carbonate weight. So I should be using 20mg calcium carbonate per litre or 12mg carbonate only per litre under hardness box input. How the heck have I done that.

Now to correct all my figures. And guess what the lager now requires no chalk and nominal gypsum. Spot on Aleman!

EDIT 2:

Ok now have all the figures again.

Bobba I have tried again with yours. But its still not reaching the same figures.

[Bobba]

Glad you got your water values sorted out afterwards greenxpaddy.

Bobba I have tried again with yours. But its still not reaching the same figures.

I've had a look into this. As I mentioned, it had been a month or so since I worked on this and I'd forgotten what stage it was at! The differences in numbers is ok, well from my perspective. It's down to different goals between the two calculators...

- Graham's tries to match the quantities of all of the ions between the target and final liquor (except in automatic mode)
- Mine tries to match the quantities of all the ions except for Cl and SO4. For those two it matches the ratio SO4:Cl between the target and final liquor.

So in essence, it works a bit closer to Graham's automatic mode all the time.
It depends what people want. Maybe I should have a button for choosing to match ratio or absolute ion content. That way you could get exactly the same values as per Graham's calculator, or go for the ratio. The thing is that really, you're after matching the ratio, so I see little point in going for absolute value.

[EoinMag]

I had this installed on my Galaxy 600Mhz phone and it caused the home screen not to load, I'm pretty sure it was the problem piece of software and since I uninstalled it things are back to normal again. The only reason I am not 100% sure that this was the issue is that I removed some other stuff at the same time, which is a no-no in troubleshooting

If you're interested I can try with it again to see if it was the issue, but my phone was pretty screwed and after it had run out of power and I powered it back up it was unable to load any homepage icons at all.

[greenxpaddy]

I've no issues on my ZTE blade

[Bobba]

I had this installed on my Galaxy 600Mhz phone and it caused the home screen not to load, I'm pretty sure it was the problem piece of software and since I uninstalled it things are back to normal again. The only reason I am not 100% sure that this was the issue is that I removed some other stuff at the same time, which is a no-no in troubleshooting

If you're interested I can try with it again to see if it was the issue, but my phone was pretty screwed and after it had run out of power and I powered it back up it was unable to load any homepage icons at all.

Hmm sounds wacky! It's written on Google's App Inventor, and I actually have very little (sorry - zero!) control on the inner workings of it, so if it does something like that then I'm scuppered. However, I'd be pretty surprised if it was this app. Perhaps you want to have another shot at it.
It works totally fine on my Samsung Galaxy Ace 800MHz

[EoinMag]

I had this installed on my Galaxy 600Mhz phone and it caused the home screen not to load, I'm pretty sure it was the problem piece of software and since I uninstalled it things are back to normal again. The only reason I am not 100% sure that this was the issue is that I removed some other stuff at the same time, which is a no-no in troubleshooting

If you're interested I can try with it again to see if it was the issue, but my phone was pretty screwed and after it had run out of power and I powered it back up it was unable to load any homepage icons at all.

Hmm sounds wacky! It's written on Google's App Inventor, and I actually have very little (sorry - zero!) control on the inner workings of it, so if it does something like that then I'm scuppered. However, I'd be pretty surprised if it was this app. Perhaps you want to have another shot at it.
It works totally fine on my Samsung Galaxy Ace 800MHz

I'll try it again, if nothing else it'll help you with a compatability list if it has problems. In fairness the 600Mhz has a lot of stuff held back on the market.