Durham Liquor

[Eric]

Same source of water as your previous location Stephen.
Northumbrian Water gives the following three figures in mg/l CaCO3 from 12 samples taken for alkalinity.
Minimum 17........... just low of optimum for pale ales.
Average 54............ Not wildly out for a vast range of British style beers.
Maximum 86.......... Too high for pale beers, running into risk territory from the mash onward for such as hazes, harsher flavours and more. Inclusion of darker malts can minimise, reduce or eliminate such problems as would treating the water with acid such as CRS.

They described this water as moderately soft, i.e. in terms for us, insufficient calcium for best possible brewing. However, that can be advantageous as it may be easier to add some salts than remove others, and you can decide their proportion and as a result, the flavour profile of your brew.

[alix101]

Same source of water as your previous location Stephen.
Northumbrian Water gives the following three figures in mg/l CaCO3 from 12 samples taken for alkalinity.
Minimum 17........... just low of optimum for pale ales.
Average 54............ Not wildly out for a vast range of British style beers.
Maximum 86.......... Too high for pale beers, running into risk territory from the mash onward for such as hazes, harsher flavours and more. Inclusion of darker malts can minimise, reduce or eliminate such problems as would treating the water with acid such as CRS.

They described this water as moderately soft, i.e. in terms for us, insufficient calcium for best possible brewing. However, that can be advantageous as it may be easier to add some salts than remove others, and you can decide their proportion and as a result, the flavour profile of your brew.

Thanks Eric thats helpfull hazes? thats intresting, i have trouble with haze in my beer ive tried alot of diffrent things...well not water treatment i feel youve just helped push open the door to a complete other aspect of brewing to get my head around , ive been putting water treatment on the back burner for to long.

[Eric]

If my memory helps me to take the gear tomorrow, while at our eldest daughter's home I'll do a test as they are on the same supply.
While haze can be a product of excessive alkalinity, I wouldn't have thought it with your water, but could be wrong. When I can, I use it to wash my car for better results than in the more alkaline water at home that usually leaves a mass of white blotches.

[alix101]

It's good to know if I don't like my beer I can wash the car with it

[Eric]

Well Stephen, as expected, I forgot to take the kit so brought back a sample and have just done some testing.
Alkalinity was very low, quite difficult to measure with accuracy, but of the order of 10mg/l CaCO3 meaning you need more for any but the palest of beers.
N. Water's figure for Calcium was 19 mg/l and I measured 20.
They give 8 mg/l for sodium, 39 for sulphate and 10 for chloride which I can't confirm but wouldn't dispute by what I've found.
As stated, alkalinity is very low and I believe this to be a result of the large amount of rain we've had this year which will likely normalise over the coming months.
You might want to put those five figures given above into GW's "Liquor Treatment Calculator" available via the link above. Have fun.

[alix101]

Well Stephen, as expected, I forgot to take the kit so brought back a sample and have just done some testing.
Alkalinity was very low, quite difficult to measure with accuracy, but of the order of 10mg/l CaCO3 meaning you need more for any but the palest of beers.
N. Water's figure for Calcium was 19 mg/l and I measured 20.
They give 8 mg/l for sodium, 39 for sulphate and 10 for chloride which I can't confirm but wouldn't dispute by what I've found.
As stated, alkalinity is very low and I believe this to be a result of the large amount of rain we've had this year which will likely normalise over the coming months.
You might want to put those five figures given above into GW's "Liquor Treatment Calculator" available via the link above. Have fun.

Your a star Eric I definitely owe you a beer. I've even been to the hop and grape today and stocked up on god, knows what

[alix101]

Just a quick one is the magnesium 0 as the only reading i can see on the report is 0.9079 ?

[Eric]

That figure is a mean value of manganese in micrgrams per litre. It seems they nowhere provide a figure for magnesium, despite them assuring me on the telephone last week that they did. I'll be getting back to them about that as the water will contain some magnesium. I'd guess there was little in your water but most of your needs will likely be provided by your malt. I couldn't guess a suitable figure and I wouldn't be too concerned about that component.

[alix101]

Ahh...I, should have researched its a completely different element.
Thanks again Eric.

[Scotty]

Just spotted this thread.

Personally, I wouldn't get too caught up in reading our water reports. My water can change dramatically from one day to the next. It depends on where Northumbrian water supply it from. Mine is either local or from Kielder, hence the changes.

Yesterday I brewed a mild which requires a CaCO3 reading of around 100-150mg/l. The liquor had a reading of 125mg/l, ideal.
Sometimes however, I can have a reading of 30mg/l so it all depends on where your water comes from on the day.

I treat all of my water with campden tablets, then add gypsum to both the mash and the copper. I use this info on the Brupaks website as a guide - http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm

[Brewpup]

Hi completely new to this topic , so please be gentle, if Northumbrian water can varynso much dependant on source , how can I get an accurate profile ( or even a usable profile). There are discussion threads where samples are being tested (at home) , what equipment is needed for this type of testing. Thanks in advance

[Eric]

Hi completely new to this topic , so please be gentle, if Northumbrian water can vary so much dependant on source , how can I get an accurate profile ( or even a usable profile). There are discussion threads where samples are being tested (at home) , what equipment is needed for this type of testing. Thanks in advance

Mineral content of water can and does vary for several reasons, although there are places where variation is little and not important.

My water can have significant variation, but for more than 90% of the time there is very little variation and when it does change significantly it is still possible for me to determine how the water should be treated to achieve a suitable water profile.

Accurate measurement of dissolved minerals is best left to a well equipped and capable individual (Wallybrew) or company, the cost incurred is minimal when compared to alternative solutions. I measure (and you can too) TDS and alkalinity of my water every brewday, using a cheap TDS meter and a Salifert KH test kit.