I'll be tuning in for that jim!
:rolleyes:
What's your water like?
QUOTE (Daft as a Brush @ Apr 13 2006, 07:55 PM) Didnt fancy shaving a little off Durham Catherdral then Jim 
?
Nope!
Anyway, here's the result, which has surprised me, especially in the light of what I have read:-
I used table III on http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... ebars.html to estimate how much calcium, sulphate and carbonate I should add to my water to very roughly emulate a well known 'good' brewing water (Burton).
Then I used http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-4.html page to find the equivalent weights/spoonfulls of Gypsum and Chalk I should add to achieve that.
The result? Mash pH 4.9 as usual, and all the salts resting at the bottom of the vessel.
My conclusions (after a bit more research on solubility etc) -
1. Both Gypsum (CaSO4) and Chalk (CaCO3) are VERY insoluble in water. The solubility is best in cold, acidic water and worst in hot, alkaline water (which presumably is why adding chalk to the acidic mash is recommended).
2. Probably a small amount did dissolve, but not enough to make any significant difference to the pH.
3. It takes a LOT of effort to add hardness to water; geological conditions under which it happens are probably extreme, and as we all know, it comes out of solution only too easily.
4. It's easier to take out excess hardness than it is to put some back!! <_<
I added 2 tpns of sodium carbonate to the mash, and the pH magically changed to 5.2. We'll have to see how the brew turns out.
? Nope!
Anyway, here's the result, which has surprised me, especially in the light of what I have read:-
I used table III on http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... ebars.html to estimate how much calcium, sulphate and carbonate I should add to my water to very roughly emulate a well known 'good' brewing water (Burton).
Then I used http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-4.html page to find the equivalent weights/spoonfulls of Gypsum and Chalk I should add to achieve that.
The result? Mash pH 4.9 as usual, and all the salts resting at the bottom of the vessel.
My conclusions (after a bit more research on solubility etc) -
1. Both Gypsum (CaSO4) and Chalk (CaCO3) are VERY insoluble in water. The solubility is best in cold, acidic water and worst in hot, alkaline water (which presumably is why adding chalk to the acidic mash is recommended).
2. Probably a small amount did dissolve, but not enough to make any significant difference to the pH.
3. It takes a LOT of effort to add hardness to water; geological conditions under which it happens are probably extreme, and as we all know, it comes out of solution only too easily.
4. It's easier to take out excess hardness than it is to put some back!! <_<
I added 2 tpns of sodium carbonate to the mash, and the pH magically changed to 5.2. We'll have to see how the brew turns out.
QUOTE (Daft as a Brush @ Apr 14 2006, 11:40 AM) Perhaps adding Sodium to your mash isnt so bad after all if your water is already low in sodium. There's 150 mg/L in my drinking water according to Souther Water, how does that compare with yours?
Not sure. I've asked for a full analysis in the past, but didn't get a reply (though I did have a full analysis for my old house).
Now that we have the freedom of information act , I'm going to try again, as they'll have to reply (although they can charge for the information).
Not sure. I've asked for a full analysis in the past, but didn't get a reply (though I did have a full analysis for my old house).
Now that we have the freedom of information act , I'm going to try again, as they'll have to reply (although they can charge for the information).
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Andy
- Virtually comatose but still standing
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I've read that it's best to mix the compounds into the grist before doughing in rather than adding them to the liquor direct.
My tap water has 39 mg/L of sodium BTW according to water report.
Jim, I think the water companies are obliged to make the analysis available to the public. They certainly have to record various levels for regulatory purposes.
My tap water has 39 mg/L of sodium BTW according to water report.
Jim, I think the water companies are obliged to make the analysis available to the public. They certainly have to record various levels for regulatory purposes.
QUOTE (andy @ Apr 14 2006, 12:11 PM) I've read that it's best to mix the compounds into the grist before doughing in rather than adding them to the liquor direct.
My tap water has 39 mg/L of sodium BTW according to water report.
Jim, I think the water companies are obliged to make the analysis available to the public. They certainly have to record various levels for regulatory purposes.
Yeah, Andy, I'm sure you're right about the water report. As I said, I had one for my old house which they provided without a murmur.
To be honest, I reckon if I'd followed up my request for the analysis for my current supply I'd have got it. My email probably just got lost in the system.
This time, they're promising a reply within 10 days.
Re mixing the salts with the grist, that may be the best way, but there were clouds of the stuff floating in my mash water just before I added the grist (I stirred it up just beforehand) so I think that as much of the stuff as was ever going to dissovle did so.
My tap water has 39 mg/L of sodium BTW according to water report.
Jim, I think the water companies are obliged to make the analysis available to the public. They certainly have to record various levels for regulatory purposes.
Yeah, Andy, I'm sure you're right about the water report. As I said, I had one for my old house which they provided without a murmur.
To be honest, I reckon if I'd followed up my request for the analysis for my current supply I'd have got it. My email probably just got lost in the system.
This time, they're promising a reply within 10 days.
Re mixing the salts with the grist, that may be the best way, but there were clouds of the stuff floating in my mash water just before I added the grist (I stirred it up just beforehand) so I think that as much of the stuff as was ever going to dissovle did so.
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BlightyBrewer
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BlightyBrewer
Mmmm, thanks for the heads up there DAAB. I must admit, I have been told stuff by that shop which made me suspicious...
I know about the different water supply regions, but this is the only info I had at the time..I'm obviously too trusting! I was supplied a water report for the Otterbourne region, but like you say, it did not contain alkalinity or calcium content values.
Regarding the alkalinity...yes, certainly open to debate as that value is very high. The conversion factor from alkalinity to calcium content is from a Brupak's data sheet on water treatment, so can probably be trusted.
I know about the different water supply regions, but this is the only info I had at the time..I'm obviously too trusting!
I was supplied a water report for the Otterbourne region, but like you say, it did not contain alkalinity or calcium content values.Regarding the alkalinity...yes, certainly open to debate as that value is very high. The conversion factor from alkalinity to calcium content is from a Brupak's data sheet on water treatment, so can probably be trusted.
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moorsd
With regards to the HB shop in question, the value of 260ppm CaCO3 is correct for the area it is situated in, so maybe there were some wires being crossed along the line somewhere??
I know it changed hands a few years ago, but I find the advice there very helpful now and consistent with the advice from other HB shops and answers on various forums etc. I think some of the other leading shops are more geared up for the 'Advanced' brewer though, but I think it would be wrong to cast a dark cloud over the HB shop in question....guess people just have differing experiences at the end of the day!
I know it changed hands a few years ago, but I find the advice there very helpful now and consistent with the advice from other HB shops and answers on various forums etc. I think some of the other leading shops are more geared up for the 'Advanced' brewer though, but I think it would be wrong to cast a dark cloud over the HB shop in question....guess people just have differing experiences at the end of the day!
This link was originally posted by mr. c
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf
Appendix V says some interesting things about water treatment.
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf
Appendix V says some interesting things about water treatment.
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Vossy1
Our waters soft in Manchester, but its full of chlorine. I've just installed an undersink filter manufactured by Aqua cure but sold by machine mart.
It has a high capacity 1 micron filter and both myself and the wife have noticed a considerable improvement in the water quality including no chlorine smell.
It has a very good flow rate, much better than most USF.
Daab, peracetic acid is very nasty stuff. It bleaches skin white on contact, then blisters. I'm talking here of splashes removed after say 30 seconds as it doen't burn instantly, just grows increasingly tingly.
It is highly irratant to the lungs, it used to cause shortage of breath with me, and its causes your eyes to stream
Again peracetic acid is only a surface sanitiser and it wont penetrate debris that harbours bacteria beneath.
It has a high capacity 1 micron filter and both myself and the wife have noticed a considerable improvement in the water quality including no chlorine smell.
It has a very good flow rate, much better than most USF.
Daab, peracetic acid is very nasty stuff. It bleaches skin white on contact, then blisters. I'm talking here of splashes removed after say 30 seconds as it doen't burn instantly, just grows increasingly tingly.
It is highly irratant to the lungs, it used to cause shortage of breath with me, and its causes your eyes to stream
Again peracetic acid is only a surface sanitiser and it wont penetrate debris that harbours bacteria beneath.
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tribs
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Vossy1
Hi Tribs, south Manchester for me, Timperley area, but I work in Runcorn.
You're lucky our water's crap
Daab, Filters, When speaking to Aqua Cure I explained why I wanted a filter ie, homebrew and they advised me not to go for the reverse osmosis unit as it removes nearly everything from water (98%ish) so my water would have no nutrients for the yeast.
I suppose wort or whatever has all the nutrients the yeast needs, but it just put me off.
You're lucky our water's crap
Daab, Filters, When speaking to Aqua Cure I explained why I wanted a filter ie, homebrew and they advised me not to go for the reverse osmosis unit as it removes nearly everything from water (98%ish) so my water would have no nutrients for the yeast.
I suppose wort or whatever has all the nutrients the yeast needs, but it just put me off.
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mysterio
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PieOPah
