Bru'n Water - Strange results in ver. 2.12

[WallyBrew]

In a properly kept glass bottle, how long does sulphuric acid last for, is the a sale by date?

Assuming you are talking about the "probably" 25%V/V I would the say the rest of your life would do. It is possible that on each opening you may lose some water and the strength would then increase by a very small amount but you wouldn't be able to measure it.

[Eric]

It's called 25% (v/v) on this page, while such an acid's properties don't match those given. Note the suggestion that reducing alkalinity by 100ppm increases sulphate by 99.4ppm rather than 96ppm.

On the products page there is a gap between AMS and Lactic Acid in Liquor Treatments where there used to be a link to the incorrect details for their sulphuric acid. What's the odds that Lactic Acid will be gone next?

[barneey]

You mean this one?

http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/datasheet ... 025%25.pdf

[Dave S]

It's called 25% (v/v) on this page, while such an acid's properties don't match those given. Note the suggestion that reducing alkalinity by 100ppm increases sulphate by 99.4ppm rather than 96ppm.

On the products page there is a gap between AMS and Lactic Acid in Liquor Treatments where there used to be a link to the incorrect details for their sulphuric acid. What's the odds that Lactic Acid will be gone next?

It's an extremely sad and poor show the way they are going about all of this. A Quality Systems auditor would have a field day.

[barneey]

You never know, being positive, the contributors to this thread might get a thank-you from them, for pointing out the various errors both on the website and bottle labels.

[WallyBrew]

It's called 25% (v/v) on this page, while such an acid's properties don't match those given. Note the suggestion that reducing alkalinity by 100ppm increases sulphate by 99.4ppm rather than 96ppm.

On the products page there is a gap between AMS and Lactic Acid in Liquor Treatments where there used to be a link to the incorrect details for their sulphuric acid. What's the odds that Lactic Acid will be gone next?

Well it's nice to know they have finally settled on 25%V/V and yes 96 would be the correct figure for sulphate addition but from that same product page

At around 8.5ml per 25 lts of water to be treated you will reduce the alkalinity by around 100ppm and boost the Sulphate by 99.4ppm.

As it is 25%V/V we know it's approximately 4.69 molar so 1mL of the acid would neutralise 469mg of calcium carbonate, hence
8.5 x 469 /25 = 159.4. This is slightly greater than quoted figure of 100

[barry44]

Guys, i have just noticed an anomaly with version 2.12.

I am adding baking soda to get the 25ppm for the pale ale profile. I have added 0.15 gram/l which gives me 41.1ppm sodium in the table adjacent to where you make the additions.

However, looking at the finished water profile sodium value in the main table above, i am getting 26.3ppm. The value in the actual water adjustment sodium cell is 22.4ppm, not 41.1ppm, my water has a value of 3.9ppm.

There is a floating cell that states that the values shown are the final concentrations in the kettle and goes on to state that they may differ from the values in the table due to the sparging water concentrations being different.

The estimated mash pH for the brew is 5.53 which is on the high side of the proposed range.

When i enter the same data in the free version of BRu n Water, version 1.16si, that i used previously, the ppm value in the table is again 41.1ppm but the finished water profile records to 45.1 adding on the 41.1 in the actual water adjustment cell.

This gives this mash an estimated pH of 5.6.

Can anyone advise if this is an error or if this correct and the sodium is negated in some manner in the finished water profile. I should point out that both the SO4 and Cl values, which are also noted as possibly differing from the values in the table, in the actual water adjustment cells correspond directly with the values in the table below.

When i remove baking soda from the additions and instead use salt as the basis for my sodium additions, the actual water adjustment cell directly follows the ppm values in the table. However, this is not good for me as i need to keep the chloride level down whilst boosting my calcium so i use both gypsum and calcium chloride to control calcium and as an effect the chloride is pretty much where i need it to be before i get to the recommended calcium level.

[WallyBrew]

It would appear to be an error.

Any sodium you add will end up in your beer it is not going to suddenly disappear

[barry44]

Thanks wally, I've emailed Martin about it. Back to the free version!!

[barry44]

I've had a response from Martin on the above anomaly and he says that the sodium cell reacts correctly to the addition of Baking Soda to the mash.

He states that the amount recorded in the finished water profile is the net amount of sodium that makes it into the kettle due to dilution by the sparge water.

The reason that the canning salt addition reflects the amount shown is due to additions in both the mash and sparge.

I have responded asking why the paid version differs from the free version in this account where the baking soda and canning salt additions are treated equally.

[WallyBrew]

I've had a response from Martin on the above anomaly and he says that the sodium cell reacts correctly to the addition of Baking Soda to the mash.

He states that the amount recorded in the finished water profile is the net amount of sodium that makes it into the kettle due to dilution by the sparge water.

Did you ask it to only add it to the mash?

The reason that the canning salt addition reflects the amount shown is due to additions in both the mash and sparge.

Assuming you have changed nothing else other than the additions does this mean Bru'n Water has decided that canning salt has to be added to both?

[barry44]

I don't understand your first comment wallybrew. The spreadsheet only allows you to add baking soda to the mash. I use it, rather than canning salt, to boost both my sodium and Bicarbonate values as I have very soft water. Epsom salts take care of my Chloride levels as well as my Magnesium.

To answer your second comment, if you add canning salt, it does show a mash and sparge addition.

[WallyBrew]

I don't understand your first comment wallybrew. The spreadsheet only allows you to add baking soda to the mash. I use it, rather than canning salt, to boost both my sodium and Bicarbonate values as I have very soft water. Epsom salts take care of my Chloride levels as well as my Magnesium.

To answer your second comment, if you add canning salt, it does show a mash and sparge addition.

I do not have the version you have and I don't use it anyway, but if the sheet only allows addition if bicarb to the mash then what Martin has said must be correct. If you change your quantities (so different ratio) of mash and sparge then presumably the sodium in the water will change. Does it give composition of mash and sparge water separately?

Epsom salts do not add chloride they add sulphate and magnesium.

[barneey]

barry, if you can let us have the water profile you are using to begin with I'm sure one of us can take a look at it for you. or if its the free version of Martins program email over to me.

[barry44]

Sorry, it's calcium chloride I use for chloride rather than salt. I'll email it over to you today.