Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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sladeywadey
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by sladeywadey » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:04 pm

I've recently experimented with boiling my water in order to reduce the alkalinity rather than use CRS. How much does boiling the water for 30 mins reduce the calcium levels by? My water's total hardness is said to be moderately high and a salifert kit test prior to boiling results with a reading of 220 CAC03. After boiling, the salifert reading is about 50 CAC03.

Graham

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Graham » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:17 pm

sladeywadey wrote:I've recently experimented with boiling my water in order to reduce the alkalinity rather than use CRS. How much does boiling the water for 30 mins reduce the calcium levels by? My water's total hardness is said to be moderately high and a salifert kit test prior to boiling results with a reading of 220 CAC03. After boiling, the salifert reading is about 50 CAC03.
220-50 = 170
170/50 = 3.4 milliequivs (50 = equiv weight of CaCO3)

3.4 * 20 = 68 (20 = equiv weight of calcium)
S0 you have reduced your calcium by 68mg/l

You still have 20mg/l of calcium bound to the carbonate. If your water company gives a figure for sulphate, there will be a bit of calcium bound to that as well

branigan

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by branigan » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:30 pm

A mate of mine a couple of door up has a marine tank setup & RO (reverse osmosis) filter, he has said that he will sort out as much water as I want and that the process will strip the water down to 0 on everything.

A few questions;

1) does RO strip everything out of any water
2) what would I need to add back if it does

Thanks in advance.

sladeywadey
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by sladeywadey » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:32 pm

Graham wrote:
sladeywadey wrote:I've recently experimented with boiling my water in order to reduce the alkalinity rather than use CRS. How much does boiling the water for 30 mins reduce the calcium levels by? My water's total hardness is said to be moderately high and a salifert kit test prior to boiling results with a reading of 220 CAC03. After boiling, the salifert reading is about 50 CAC03.
220-50 = 170
170/50 = 3.4 milliequivs (50 = equiv weight of CaCO3)

3.4 * 20 = 68 (20 = equiv weight of calcium)
S0 you have reduced your calcium by 68mg/l

You still have 20mg/l of calcium bound to the carbonate. If your water company gives a figure for sulphate, there will be a bit of calcium bound to that as well
Thank you Graham for your answer. I assume therefore that I have to add some calcium back?

For reference, here is the reply I got back from Veolia regarding my water:

Alkalinity (CaCO3) 231 mg/l
Hardness (Ca) 268 mg/l
Chloride (Cl) 53 mg/l
Sulphate (SO4) 79 mg/l
Magnesium (Mg) 4.8 mg/l
Sodium (Na) 34.9 mg/l

Graham

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Graham » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:41 pm

sladeywadey wrote:
Graham wrote:
sladeywadey wrote:I've recently experimented with boiling my water in order to reduce the alkalinity rather than use CRS. How much does boiling the water for 30 mins reduce the calcium levels by? My water's total hardness is said to be moderately high and a salifert kit test prior to boiling results with a reading of 220 CAC03. After boiling, the salifert reading is about 50 CAC03.
220-50 = 170
170/50 = 3.4 milliequivs (50 = equiv weight of CaCO3)

3.4 * 20 = 68 (20 = equiv weight of calcium)
S0 you have reduced your calcium by 68mg/l

You still have 20mg/l of calcium bound to the carbonate. If your water company gives a figure for sulphate, there will be a bit of calcium bound to that as well
Thank you Graham for your answer. I assume therefore that I have to add some calcium back?

For reference, here is the reply I got back from Veolia regarding my water:

Alkalinity (CaCO3) 231 mg/l
Hardness (Ca) 268 mg/l
Chloride (Cl) 53 mg/l
Sulphate (SO4) 79 mg/l
Magnesium (Mg) 4.8 mg/l
Sodium (Na) 34.9 mg/l
Well, there will be 33mg/l of calcium bound to your sulphate, so the total calcium in your water after treatment will be approx 53mg/l. You will need to add more calcium in my opinion.

sladeywadey
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by sladeywadey » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:13 pm

again thanks, Graham. If I wanted a more maltier tasting beer such as Fullers ESB, I would add this extra calcium as calcium chloride yes?

Graham

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Graham » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:49 pm

sladeywadey wrote:again thanks, Graham. If I wanted a more maltier tasting beer such as Fullers ESB, I would add this extra calcium as calcium chloride yes?
Yes, I guess so. 2:1 sulphate:chloride ratio is generally regarded as typical for bitter style beers. Nevertheless, many brewers on here have lower ratios (a higher proportion of chloride) because many use CRS and similar for alkalinity reduction, which gives a 1:1 ratio anyway, so they are stuck with at least that ratio if they have high alkalinity water.

sladeywadey
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by sladeywadey » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:07 pm

Thanks Graham - does your water treatment calculator take account of the calcium additions/losses when using the 'boiling to reduce alkalinity' method?

400d

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by 400d » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:02 pm

hey guys,

I want to brew a stout, and this is my water profile:

Ca 51,2
Mg 21
Na 1,7
Cl 2,6
SO4 9,0
HCO3 244
ph 7,75

what would you do with this water to make it suitable for a stout?

I have gypsum, epsom solt, and CaCl2. I also have lactic acid. Would it be really horrible if I leave bicarbonates as they are (244) and just add some Ca, Cl and SO4 by addng salts?

thanks

branigan

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by branigan » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:30 pm

400d wrote:hey guys,

I want to brew a stout, and this is my water profile:

Ca 51,2
Mg 21
Na 1,7
Cl 2,6
SO4 9,0
HCO3 244
ph 7,75

what would you do with this water to make it suitable for a stout?

I have gypsum, epsom solt, and CaCl2. I also have lactic acid. Would it be really horrible if I leave bicarbonates as they are (244) and just add some Ca, Cl and SO4 by addng salts?

thanks
Theres a simple water treatment calculator here;

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php

sladeywadey
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by sladeywadey » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:45 pm

branigan wrote:
400d wrote:hey guys,

I want to brew a stout, and this is my water profile:

Ca 51,2
Mg 21
Na 1,7
Cl 2,6
SO4 9,0
HCO3 244
ph 7,75

what would you do with this water to make it suitable for a stout?

I have gypsum, epsom solt, and CaCl2. I also have lactic acid. Would it be really horrible if I leave bicarbonates as they are (244) and just add some Ca, Cl and SO4 by addng salts?

thanks
Theres a simple water treatment calculator here;

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php
there's one on this forum too 8)

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

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Naich
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Naich » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:28 pm

I've got a cheap and cheerful one here too. Stick in the recipe, go to "View/print" and tick the "water treatment" box.

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orlando
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by orlando » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:37 pm

Hi Steve,

That link is now dead.


REgards
Ashley

candygold1

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by candygold1 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:01 pm

just got this from my water board
Thank you for your e-mail received on 27 December 2012, requesting information about your water.
I have checked our records and would like to advise the average alkaline level is 7.489 ph, for your area.

Padalac

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Padalac » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:15 am

I contacted Thames water and they couldn't seem to provide me total alkalinity.. Anyone had success getting this from them? Maybe they don't measure it.

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