Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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dcq1974
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by dcq1974 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:24 pm

Hi Chaps
Can anyone tell me what the actual composition of the carbonate reducing solution is?

I am a lab rat and may be able to make some up rather easily!

I see from various descriptions that it is a mixture of acids, just wondered what and what levels?

Cheers
DCQ
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BarnsleyBrewer
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by BarnsleyBrewer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:03 pm

Chris-x1 wrote:Any chance of making this a sticky ?
HELLO MODS, any chance of a sticky :?:
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Aleman
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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Aleman » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:16 am

dcq1974 wrote:Can anyone tell me what the actual composition of the carbonate reducing solution is?

I am a lab rat and may be able to make some up rather easily!

I see from various descriptions that it is a mixture of acids, just wondered what and what levels?
Hydrochloric and Sulphuric, not sure about molarity or ratios :?

pdc

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by pdc » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:07 pm

"Alkalinity can be measured by titrating a sample with a strong acid until all the buffering capacity of the aforementioned ions above the pH of bicarbonate or carbonate is consumed. This point is functionally set to pH 4.5. At this point, all the bases of interest have been protonated to the zero level species, hence they no longer cause alkalinity."

I would have thought it would be easy to measure your own water for Calcium Carbonate.

10 or 20 litres of water.

Add 1ml of CRS (0.1ml per litre(10l) or 0.05ml per litre(20l)) 180mg of eat-ablility (18mg per litre(10l) or 9mg(20l))

measure pH

repeat until pH ~ 4.5

count total ml of CRS to reach pH=4.5

times 18 (for 10l) or 9(for 20l)

result Alkalinity of water in mg/l.

Unless I'm missing something subtle...

P

haz66

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by haz66 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:10 am

How do you increase the alkalinity of water as mine is 12.43 mg/l CaCO3 and i need it around 50 mg/l to 100mg/l ?

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Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Aleman » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:56 am

You can add Sodium Carbonate to the Liquor (Watch out for Sodium levels though, that will cause more problems than low alkalinity). Or add a small amount of calcium carbonate to the grist. it will dissolve in the mildly acid environment of the mash. Or find a mineral water with a high carbonate level (Some are around 280mg/l) and mix that with your main water.

My Alkalinity is 24mg/l and I rarely bother to treat it to raise the alkalinity . . . it is only really necessary for dark beers with lots of roast grain . . . . my last Imperial Russian Stout had a mash pH of around 4.9-5.0(just in the acceptable ballpark really) , and that had no alkalinity treatment . . . . It is something that I am going to play with this year though

haz66

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by haz66 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:45 pm

Thanks Aleman

Robdog

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Robdog » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:00 pm

Do i work out how much CRS to use by the amount of mash water or by the whole volume of water ill be using during my brew?

I usually heat my mash water seperate as its quicker but if the calculations go by the whole volume of water used ill do it like that.


Robdog

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Robdog » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:26 pm

Aleman wrote:CRS Addition to the whole volume of the brewing liquor


Ok thanks Aleman. I will treat the water first then mash and sparge etc.

Robdog

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Robdog » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:09 pm

Ive just spent 15 or so mins on the phone to south stafs water. They put me onto the lab who kept going on that we had hard water here. I did say i needed total alkalinity but they didt seem to understand what i meant.

Anyway i said something about cac03 and she came back and said i had 208ppm or mg per ml of calcium carbonate in my water.

Is the the right thing she has given me here or do i need to phone back?

Ive just checked on the website and the calcium carbonate level she gave me is to do with hardness so im not sure what to do.

DarloDave

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by DarloDave » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:28 pm

If I am on Northumbrian Water, will someone else in the next town who is also on Northumbrian water have the same water profile as me?

DarloDave

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by DarloDave » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:57 pm

Nevermind.

Robdog

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Robdog » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:17 pm

Robdog wrote:Ive just spent 15 or so mins on the phone to south stafs water. They put me onto the lab who kept going on that we had hard water here. I did say i needed total alkalinity but they didt seem to understand what i meant.

Anyway i said something about cac03 and she came back and said i had 208ppm or mg per ml of calcium carbonate in my water.

Is the the right thing she has given me here or do i need to phone back?

Ive just checked on the website and the calcium carbonate level she gave me is to do with hardness so im not sure what to do.

I bit the bluuet in the end and ive taken this reading as correct. Like i say they were going on about hardness which in chrisx's post it says i should put my fingers in my ear but the reading sounds correct ie 208 Caco3 or ppm so im hoping i havent messed my brew up.

Robdog

Re: Treating Water With a High Alkalinity for Brewing

Post by Robdog » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:33 pm

Ive just been having another think about the figure this women gave me of 208 cac03 or ppm.

Ive double checked the water report and this reading is in regards to hardness, now dabbs original post said you dont want to here figures for hardness, nowhere on the report does it state total alkalinity and when i rang they didnt seem to know what i meant?

Thing is though she did say my water has an average calcium carbonate level of 208 CAC03 or PPM and she also said our water was fairly hard.

Does this sound like the right figure?

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