Thames Water - total alkalinity specifications in Surrey ar

[spencerwood]

Hi,

Any homebrewers in the Surrey area (I'm in Chessington), I would be greatful if you can advise me of your water treatment processes (if you treat at all). I've read through the sticky water treatment thread and gather I need the "total alkalinity" figure. I've tried getting this from Thames Water for my area but not having a great deal of success. If anyone nearby has the values already I would love to know what they are. I'm a little confused about the whole water treatment process and so I thought it would be a good starting point to see what other people do in my area. I currently don't do any water treatment at all, next time I am at least going to do the Campden tablet trick to reduce chlorine but if I can sort out all the other factors too then that would be great.


Cheers


Spencer

[Blackaddler]

There's some info on Thames Water website.

Thames Water Drinking water quality report 2008 (0.24Mb). A bit out of date, but 2009 report is probably due soon.

You can also enter your postcode here, and check the boxes for the info required.

I'm not far from you, but come under Three Valleys Water.

[spencerwood]

Thanks for you input, I had tried the postcode checker the other day and managed to get the 'hardness' figure but according to the water treatment tread, this value should be ignored and only 'total alkalinity' should be used. Graham wheelers online water calculator says you can use hardness as a last resort so i was keen to see if I could get the total alkalinity value from anyone that lives near me.

Blackaddler - do you both to treat your water at all?

Cheers

spencer

[Blackaddler]

I've been treating my water with AMS up until recently, but now that I've almost run out, I may have to change to CRS.

[spencerwood]

What process do you follow - do you use any calculators or tools? Do you know the total alkalinity for you to know how much AMS/CRS to add?

Thanks

Spencer

[Blackaddler]

Originally, I was told by my local micro how much to use - just over 1ml per litre. Although thinking about it, that figure may have been for bitter style beers only.

Now, that I have the figures from Three Valleys [Calcium 102mg/l and total hardness 255mg/l], I put them in an Excel workbook, [courtesy of the CBA website] and it calculates how much AMS/CRS to add for each style of beer. It also calculates how much DWB [DLS] to add to the mash.
See the factsheet as well.

Interestingly, it recommends 0.87ml per L for AMS. Less than I had expected.

I tend to brew dark beers, for which it recommends 0.32ml per L.
I've been using as little as 0.20ml per L, and the beer has been turning out OK.

[spencerwood]

Thames water can't give me total alkalinity. But a local fish centre has told me that the pH of the chessington tap water is between 8.3 and 8.5. Does anyone know how I convert from pH to the CaCO3 mg/l value so I can use it in all the water treatment calculators?

Thanks


Spencer

[steve_flack]

I've been treating my water with AMS up until recently, but now that I've almost run out, I may have to change to CRS.

They're the same thing just different names. Brupacks buys Murphys AMS, packs it in little bottles, calls it CRS and adds their mark up.

[Blackaddler]

Thames water can't give me total alkalinity.

An earlier thread suggests that Thames Valley's total hardness varies quite a bit....

[spencerwood]

I've been on the phone for ages today to get the value of total alkalinity out of Thames Water. Still no joy.

If anyone in the Surrey/London area has a value then please let me know. I am planning on brewing this weekend, I have purchased, CRS, DLS and gypsum and without that figure I dont really know what I'm doing.


Many thanks


Spencer

[Blackaddler]

What do you plan to brew?

[adm]

I've been on the phone for ages today to get the value of total alkalinity out of Thames Water. Still no joy.

If anyone in the Surrey/London area has a value then please let me know. I am planning on brewing this weekend, I have purchased, CRS, DLS and gypsum and without that figure I dont really know what I'm doing.


Many thanks


Spencer

Definitely go and buy a Salifert test kit as mentioned by Aleman above. They are about £7 at you local aquarium/fish shop, or on eBay. The kit will do 100 tests or so and only takes about 5 mins to do - then you'll know exactly what your TA is.

I live in Surrey and my Total Alkalinity is a pretty much spot on 135mg/l CaC03 all year round, but I'm down near the Sussex border and suspect I have a different water supply to you, so it may not help you much.

[spencerwood]

Thanks for that - I'm planning on brewing a Hop Garden Gold copy - pale ale so lowest CaCO3 required from what I can gather. I'll try and buy a kit from a fish shop or pets at home. My local fish shop has a Tetra kit, my wife spoke to them earlier for me, not sure if its for toal alklinity or not though.

Thanks


Spencer

[Blackaddler]

Your water hardness is in the 200-400mg/l range, which is classed as moderately hard.

I think that if you go with the Three Valley's figure of 255mg/l, you shouldn't be more that about 10% out.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the water comes from the same source anyway.

For Pale Ale, my spreadsheet suggests 0.87ml/l of AMS or CRS for the liquor, and 0.43g/l of DWB or DLS in the mash.

It's difficult to measure such concise amounts anyway, so I tend to round up or down, but as long as you're in the right area, you should be OK.

[spencerwood]

I've finally purchased one of those kits - as soon as I have a reading, I'll post it so that anyone else in my area can use it.

What speadsheet are you using? When I was at the home brew shop last night, I picked up CRS, DLS and gypsym. Do I need all three? I've read so much about water treatment this last week its all so confusing!!

Thanks


Spencer