Trying out with Sulphuric acid

[Dave S]

I've been using phosphoric acid for treating my brewing water of late to good effect, but I thought I'd give H2 So4 a try. I've got some 98% laboratory grade on order and could do with some advice from anyone experienced in its use.

1. would it be advisable to dilute it with distilled water? if so how much?

and

2. will a normal plastic syringe be up to the job of dispensing it?

Ta for any advice.

[barneey]

I very nearly tried sulphuric recently, there is a thread on here with lot of good info.

The best advice I can give you is to dilute it down to a safer usable % level say 15 or 20%.

The thing that stopped me was trying to get hold of the purest form of acid £50 for 1/2litr or something like that, no one would sell it to me.

Becareful

Cheers

EDIT spelling

[Dave S]

I veery nearly tried sulphuric recently, there is a thread on here with lot of goof info.

The best advice I can give you is to dilute it down to a safer usable % level say 15 or 20%.

The thing that stopped me was trying to get hold of the purest form of acid £50 for 1/2litr or something like that, no one would sell it to me.

Becareful

Cheers

Thanks Barneey. I've ordered this from an Amazon seller, (500 ml @ £7.99) and I must say I'm having a bit of trouble getting it. I ordered it on the 17th and after a week I contacted the seller to say that I hadn't received it. He got back and said he'd 'chase it'. He got back the next day and said he'd 'chased it' and it was on its way. But.... I'm still waiting

From what you say £7.99 sounds too good to be true - maybe it is.

[barneey]

If you do a little bit of reading on acid based web site suppliers you will see from the various certifactes for different type of sulphuric acid there is quite abit difference between them regarding lead , arsenic etc levels.

So I would suggest caution on what you buy / intend to use it for.

So just be carefull

[WallyBrew]

I've got some 98% laboratory grade on order and could do with some advice from anyone experienced in its use.

1. would it be advisable to dilute it with distilled water? if so how much?

and

2. will a normal plastic syringe be up to the job of dispensing it?

Ta for any advice.

Answer to 1 is Yes

Weigh 200g of the acid out, add this very slowly (about 10 to 15mL at a time) to about 700mL of distilled water contained in a conical flask, swirling between additions and cool the side of the flask under running water. When the final addition has been made cool and transfer to a plastic bottle and make to 1 litre with distilled water. If you buy 1 litre of water you can mark the level of one litre and return the acid to this bottle. LABEL !!

This solution should be approx 2molar (if I got my maths right) and 1mL will neutralise 200mg of calcium carbonate.

Concentrated sulphuric acid will rapidly take on board water from your skin if you spill any on it and it will go black. Since it also generates vast quantities of heat in this process you will notice any splashes.

Answer to 2 - depends on syringe plastic when using concentrated acid but when diluted it should be OK

[Dave S]

I've got some 98% laboratory grade on order and could do with some advice from anyone experienced in its use.

1. would it be advisable to dilute it with distilled water? if so how much?

and

2. will a normal plastic syringe be up to the job of dispensing it?

Ta for any advice.

Answer to 1 is Yes

Weigh 200g of the acid out, add this very slowly (about 10 to 15mL at a time) to about 700mL of distilled water contained in a conical flask, swirling between additions and cool the side of the flask under running water. When the final addition has been made cool and transfer to a plastic bottle and make to 1 litre with distilled water. If you buy 1 litre of water you can mark the level of one litre and return the acid to this bottle. LABEL !!

This solution should be approx 2molar (if I got my maths right) and 1mL will neutralise 200mg of calcium carbonate.

Concentrated sulphuric acid will rapidly take on board water from your skin if you spill any on it and it will go black. Since it also generates vast quantities of heat in this process you will notice any splashes.

Answer to 2 - depends on syringe plastic when using concentrated acid but when diluted it should be OK

Thanks Walleybrew. I'm getting a bit nervous about this now. Maybe when/if it arrives I'll use it for unblocking the drain and stick to phosphoric.

[barneey]

Hope I havnt put you off, I certainly want to try water treatment with this acid.

But for me its got to be the purest form available, just a case of getting some

BTW Wallybrew is far, far more knowledgeable on water subjects than I.

If you find a "true" supplier of acid please let me know.

Cheers

[elslow]

Remember always add the acid to the water! Try as above said with conical of 700ml h2o, but try putting flask in a water/ice bath to dissipate heat.

[Dave S]

The, what is starting to become the mythical batch that I've ordered is rated at 98% laboratory grade. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly that lab grade = food grade. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this. As I've said, if it ever arrives and it's not right I'll just use it as drain unblocker.

[barneey]

Dave, cant answer that question but have a look at the data sheet for Aristar acid https://uk.vwr.com/app/catalog/Product; ... er=450061Q and would suggest you look at the data sheet for the one you are buying.

I might be a bit paranoid but now have a look at http://www.reagent.co.uk/sulphuric-acid-lrg and the different type on the website / PDF docs.

I`ll let you decide BTW no one seems to know what grade is in CRS? wouldnt mind knowing tho.

Cheers

EDIT

http://www.reagent.co.uk/uploads/docume ... cation.pdf

http://www.reagent.co.uk/uploads/docume ... cation.pdf

[Pinto]

Remember always add the acid to the water! Try as above said with conical of 700ml h2o, but try putting flask in a water/ice bath to dissipate heat.

The old lab saying...

Add Acid to Water..... Awwww
Water Added to ACID..... WAAAA !

Kinda self explanitory...

[Dave S]

Dave, cant answer that question but have a look at the data sheet for Aristar acid https://uk.vwr.com/app/catalog/Product; ... er=450061Q and would suggest you look at the data sheet for the one you are buying.

I might be a bit paranoid but now have a look at http://www.reagent.co.uk/sulphuric-acid-lrg and the different type on the website / PDF docs.

I`ll let you decide BTW no one seems to know what grade is in CRS? wouldnt mind knowing tho.

Cheers

EDIT

http://www.reagent.co.uk/uploads/docume ... cation.pdf

http://www.reagent.co.uk/uploads/docume ... cation.pdf

Thanks man, all those break downs look fine. I guess I'll just have to hope, (if it arrives that is) that there's a composition doc accompanying.

[mabrungard]

ACS Reagent grade should be equivalent to food-grade or FCC, its just not been proven to be safe for food use through the appropriate testing. But since it is pure enough to be certified by the manufacturer to be reagent-grade, I would be fairly confident that its close enough. I would not use any acids that were not FCC, food-grade, or reagent-grade since acids do dissolve heavy metals readily.

[Dave S]

ACS Reagent grade should be equivalent to food-grade or FCC, its just not been proven to be safe for food use through the appropriate testing. But since it is pure enough to be certified by the manufacturer to be reagent-grade, I would be fairly confident that its close enough. I would not use any acids that were not FCC, food-grade, or reagent-grade since acids do dissolve heavy metals readily.

Thanks Martin, that's useful information.

[WallyBrew]

We are of course in Europe so ACS and FCC don't apply we have AnalaR, AristaR, GPR, Normapure etc, E numbers and lots of other exciting bits of legislation so:

Sulphuric acid does not have an E number so perhaps its not accepted for food use by the EU

anyway from foreign lands the FCC (food chemicals codex) gives

Identification - responds to test for sulphate
Assay - not less than minimum or within range of Be° or the % of H2SO4, claimed or implied by the vendor (note that Be is baume and not beryllium)
Arsenic - not more than 3mg/kg
Chloride - not more than 0.005%
Heavy metals - not more than 0.002%
iron - not more than 0.02% (this was sent to me by someone from work - 200mg/kg seems a lot
Lead - not more than 5mg/kg
Nitrate - not more than 10mg/kg
Reducing substances - (as SO2) passes test
Selenium - not more than 0.002%

or as we are in Europe

From the british and european pharmacopoeia
Sulphuric Acid (concentrated)
(Ph Eur monograph 1572)
DEFINITION
Content 95.0 per cent m/m to 100.5 per cent m/m.
Appearance Colourless, oily liquid, very hygroscopic.
Solubility Miscible with water and with ethanol (96 per cent) producing intense heat.
Relative density About 1.84.

Chlorides Maximum 50 ppm
Nitrates passes test
Arsenic Maximum 1 ppm
Iron Maximum 25 ppm.
Heavy metals Maximum 5 ppm as Pb


Below are the two other acids most commonly used

Phosphoric acid E338
max limits for 75%

volatile acids - 10mg/kg as acetic acid
chlorides - 200mg/kg as Cl
Nitrates - 5mg/kg as sodium nitrate
Sulphates - 1,500mg/kg as calcium sulphate
Fluoride - 10mg/kg as F
Arsenic - 3mg/kg as As
Cadmium - 1mg/kg as Cd
Lead - 4mg/kg as Pb
Mercury - 1mg/kg as Hg


Hydrochloric acid E507
max limits for assay not less than 35g/100g HCl

Total organic compounds - non fluorine containing 5mg/kg
- benzene 0.05mg/kg
- fluorinated compounds 25mg/kg
Non volatile matter - 0.5g/100g
Reducing substances as sulphur dioxide - 70mg/kg
Oxidising substances as chlorine - 30mg/kg
Sulphate = 0.5g/100g
Iron - 5mg/kg as Fe
Arsenic - 1mg/kg as As
Lead - 1mg/kg as Pb
Mercury - 1mg/kg as Hg