Acid Woes

[keith1664]

Since swapping to phosphoric acid to tame the high alkalinity in my water I've noticed that most of my beers have suffered from some clarity issues. In fact a few are downright murky, this isn't an issue I had in the days of using CRS. I've also noticed on a few brew days that the HLT has developed a deposit on and around the elements with a white sediment.
In fact thinking about it every step had become murkier, the run off from the mash was taking longer to run clear, the cold break barely noticeable.

So having decided to take a break from phosphoric I started looking around for sulphuric and hydrochloric acids so I can juggle my sulphate/chloride.... can't get hydrochloric.
Ok, lets use CRS and top up with sulphuric as I tend to go hoppy, how to work out how much of each? Next update for Bru'n'water multiple acids please.

So with my alkalinity at 222 CaCO3 I decide to add 21ml of Murphys 25% Sulphuric to 68L of water, that should give me about -90 alkalinity and +the same sulphates, then remeasure and finish off with CRS. I do so and I now have an alkalinity of 79? Fiddling around with another water calculator that makes my Sulphuric acid 35% not 25%

Shouldn't this be easier?

I'm not a chemist (obviously) but it seems to me that something is being removed from my water (calcium) which is causing this problem.
I believe I've seen Aleman mention this can happen and Martin say it's not a problem and talking to a CBA member and man who designed the famous Norfolk beer who's kit version a lot of you make "phosporic strips out all the calcium"!

Well at least it still tastes good (I should know I've had a couple)

Rant over

[paulg]

that last statement about phosphoric stripping out calcium is interesting to me ,as I am about to use acid instead of CRS for the first time
I dont normally add any calcium, as my tap water contains 78ppm anyway.
If this is correct (and I dont dought it coming from that source) I would need to add some back

[Aleman]

Acid strengths quoted by one supplier have been found to be different to the stated value. Add half the acid required, test, add the rest.

As for using two acids, run the spreadsheet with your standard water profile, mess with your acids, copy the output profile to the input, play with the second acid. Same applies if you want to treat mash and sparge liquor differently. No need to over complicate an already complex program

[mozza]

I've had good results with lactic acid from Murphy and sons. But then my water is soft so I don't need more than about 3ml in the mash to get the desired ph

[barry44]

Lactic acid in my sparge water appears to be working for me. Again, I am only using 3ml to treat it.

[chastuck]

My own experiments with Murphy H2S04 has shown the acid strength is 36%.

[Dave S]

My own experiments with Murphy H2S04 has shown the acid strength is 36%.

Well that's interesting because I brewed with Murphy's H2So4 last weekend and found that the calculated dose did not bring the alkalinity down to the predicted value. I should have got it to 39, but instead it was around 48. Had to add a further 0.1ml. This would suggest that it is less than the stated 25% I think Aleman's suggestion of adding half, test then add the rest is sound advice.

[chastuck]

Maybe there is a lack of consistency across the product.

[keith1664]

It certainly seems that the Murphy's Sulphuric isn't the stated 25%, maybe whoever mixed it didn't stir it enough.

And to those who only need 3ml of lactic acid, bru'n'water calculates I'd need 31.7ml in 68L, which having a quick google makes it borderline detectable.

With regard to phosphoric acid removing calcium I've seen it mentioned that it removes calcium and as I said my retired brewer aquaintance says it does and I've noticed the deposits I assume to be calcium and something, so does it?

Going back to my brewday I had a good cold break... just like the old days!

[GrowlingDogBeer]

Maybe there is a lack of consistency across the product.

Maybe. My bottle of H2SO4 is almost twice as strong as advertised.

[barneey]

It certainly seems that the Murphy's Sulphuric isn't the stated 25%, maybe whoever mixed it didn't stir it enough.

And to those who only need 3ml of lactic acid, bru'n'water calculates I'd need 31.7ml in 68L, which having a quick google makes it borderline detectable.

With regard to phosphoric acid removing calcium I've seen it mentioned that it removes calcium and as I said my retired brewer aquaintance says it does and I've noticed the deposits I assume to be calcium and something, so does it?

Going back to my brewday I had a good cold break... just like the old days!

Keith,

Did you stop using phosphoric acid to treat your water? I ask as I tried an experimental brew the other month and clarity issues have returned, I think for me that Sulphuric and Hydrochloric are a better mix, for me anyway.

Cheers

[keith1664]

Yup, I now use CRS and/or Sulphuric and I have returned to clear beers. I should really source myself a bottle of Hydrochloric I suppose.
Can anyone think of a use for my bottle of Phosporic!

[Aleman]

Loo cleaner?

[keith1664]

Could do....Have to remember to flush before using it though!

[Eadweard]

Try another acid. Phosphoic acid will react with calcium and cause calcium phosphate to precipitate out.