Correct use of DLS/DWB?

[Wobbler]

Was just wondering how others use DLS/DWB?

Murphy & Son say:
DWB @ xxx oz/brl, calculated with respect to the brew length, to be mixed in with the grist.

Whereas Brupaks say:
Stage 1. Weigh sufficient DLS to treat your mashing liquor. Mix DLS into the dry grains. This is most important as adding it to raw liquor will not affect the mash pH.
Stage 2. Weigh sufficient DLS to treat the balance of the total brewing liquor. Add to the wort at the commencement of the boil.

I've been sticking with what Murphy & Son say and only using enough to treat the brew length, and mixing it in with the grist.

[Wobbler]

So would having DLS/DWB in with the sparge water help in stopping the mash pH from dropping too low, particularly near the end of sparging?

[Wobbler]

I've just re-read the Brupaks instructions and it doesn't mention any DLS in with sparge water. In fact, I'm a bit confused about what they are saying.

[Wobbler]

Hold on DaaB, can we keep on with DLS/DWB for a moment.
I'm interested why you said:

Personally i'd prefer to go with Brupaks approach as it addressed mash ph which is more important than having the correct balance of salts.

Why would Brupaks method effect mash pH more? They advise using DLS in with the grist, just as Murphys do, then Brupaks recommend adding a second batch in with the start of boil. I don't understand how that would effect pH of mash any different.

I know I'm like a dog with bone, sorry!

[Wobbler]

Re CRS/AMS: Yes that's what I would have thought, or what I assumed was true.

So to back track a little. It seems by the end of the mash there's been no difference in the application or quantities of DLS/DWB with Murphys' or Brupaks' method, it's just Brupaks tot up the total water (minus the mash water) and use the same treatment quantities per volume as they did in the mash and add it at the start of the boil.
*puts bone down for a bit*

[Wobbler]

I think Murphys are saying use x amount per barrel of DWB, calculated by how much calcium is in your water. Which in theory would adjust said water to 180/220 ppm, but the DWB is either mixed in with the grist, or laid on top of the grist, not the mash water or sparge water.
x amount per barrel is calculated to just the brew length, not the sparge water as well.

Just to add confusion to this already confusing subject, here's a cut and paste from a DWB tech sheet Murphys just sent me:

"(b) Where to add the product
The product can be can be either added to the grist-case or to kettle. It is sometimes advantageous to retain a proportion of the material and add it to the mash tun during the sparge. This prevents the pH from climbing too high and causing the extraction from the grist of materials detrimental to wort quality."

So DWB stops the pH from getting too high. Maybe it's to do with the amount of sulphate it adds to the mash?

I need a beer!

[Wobbler]

No specific problems, just an eagerness to learn, but sometimes there's more than one face to things.

[David Edge]

The factsheet on the CBA site may be worth reading:

http://www.craftbrewing.org.uk/bcpdf/BC0-1_Water.pdf

For those who think they've already seen it, this is the 2007 rewrite, not James McCrorie's 1996 original. I hope it is a bit clearer.

If you hadn't already seen it, the webmaster has it hidden on the 'Technical' page. It will eventually move to a 'Process' page, but he's currently sorting out a homebrewing basics page which - don't worry - will lean on JHBF and contributors as much as possible! Readers will have noticed the current site gives readers the idea that full mash brewing is the only way to brew at home.

[Wobbler]

Thanks for that David.

It seems to confirm what Paul Taylor of Murphys told me over the phone the other day, i.e.

"Note that the DWB/DLS addition is based on your expected brew length not the amount of liquor used and that this dry mixture is mixed in with your crushed grist or added to the mash."

It also confirms that DWB lowers mash pH:

The other product is Murphy’s ‘DWB’, a dry mixture of salts designed to increase calcium and other ion levels and also reduce the pH of the mash.

[mixbrewery]

CBA factsheet is excellent.
Really helped me calculating the additions of CRS for total liquor and the DLS for the mash.