Hello all. Just had a water softener fitted at home. I've previously brewed decent all grain brews from SE England hard water and even better results from shop bought bottled. Does anyone know what I could expect from my newly softened tap water?
The guy said that whilst chemicals and impurities are extracted, the pH value doesn't change. That would give me a pH of aprx 7.4 (affinity water mean). I've not done much in the way of water treatments so I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of those of you that have. Otherwise I may just play it safe with shop bought water.
Water softener.
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AnthonyUK
Re: Water softener.
Do you know what type of filter it is, active carbon/ion exchange/reverse osmosis etc?
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Eric
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Re: Water softener.
Can you say how it works? Some softeners replace the calcium component of hardness by sodium meaning the quantity of alkalinity in the water remains unchanged. At the same time the beneficial calcium is lost and the sodium level can be excessive for some beers. It possibly isn't that kind of softener as for reasons of health it is advised that they are not used in the potable water connection.
While pH level in all stages of brewing is important, that of water used has no relevance whatsoever. What is of importance is the water's alkalinity which can be measured with an inexpensive kit and adjusted cheaply with any of several suitable acids.
Hard water is beneficial to brewing, just that it has to be the right type of hardness.
While pH level in all stages of brewing is important, that of water used has no relevance whatsoever. What is of importance is the water's alkalinity which can be measured with an inexpensive kit and adjusted cheaply with any of several suitable acids.
Hard water is beneficial to brewing, just that it has to be the right type of hardness.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.
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chris.laws.54943
Re: Water softener.
Thanks Anthony and Eric. I'm not entirely sure how it works. It's NOT RO though (as that was an optional extra to add to the drinking water tap)
It has a cylinder which contains "media" (looks like very small shingle?) through which the water filters. The media is then cleaned with salt water every so often.
I think, FWIW, I might just give it a go and see what happens.
Perhaps I'll try getting a cheap testing kit before I do though.
Thanks again!
It has a cylinder which contains "media" (looks like very small shingle?) through which the water filters. The media is then cleaned with salt water every so often.
I think, FWIW, I might just give it a go and see what happens.
Perhaps I'll try getting a cheap testing kit before I do though.
Thanks again!
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AnthonyUK
Re: Water softener.
As Eric mentions how some of the filters work you'll only want to use a carbon filter for brewing (or RO but yours in not that).
The ion exchange which would 'soften' the water so is likely the type you have would be detremental for brewing.
You really don't want to be drinking just RO water on a long term basis as it will dilute your bodies mineral levels with some pretty serious health consequences.
The ion exchange which would 'soften' the water so is likely the type you have would be detremental for brewing.
You really don't want to be drinking just RO water on a long term basis as it will dilute your bodies mineral levels with some pretty serious health consequences.
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Eric
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Re: Water softener.
Yes, it sounds like the type you don't want. The water is softened by changing the calcium (bi)carbonate to sodium (bi)carbonate meaning that alkalinity (the bit you don't want) remains of the same quantity but lets the soap lather more easily and as it is more soluble doesn't leave the usual scum behind.
I'd advise you remove it from the drinking water supply and put it into the washing machine supply and the like and don't use it for brewing at this stage.
I'd advise you remove it from the drinking water supply and put it into the washing machine supply and the like and don't use it for brewing at this stage.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.
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Eric
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Re: Water softener.
Don't worry about hardness, it is basically a measure of the amounts of calcium and magnesium found in water in every form they take. Both these metals have helpful roles in brewing, but in the form we brewers call alkalinity have adverse affects when outside the range suitable for the type of beer being produced. Most untreated hard waters in UK contain excessive alkalinity for making the best pale beers.chris.laws.54943 wrote:Brilliant thank you for the advice!
Using an ion exchange water softener of the common type with salt replaces beneficial calcium with sodium to significantly reduce hardness with no impact on adversarial alkalinity. Alkalinity can be measured easily using a Salifert kit.
The simplest and cheapest way to reduce alkalinity in water is with acid which will not change the amount of calcium and magnesium and therefore the hardness, but converts alkaline forms into salts. One readily available acid is sold in many homebrew shops as CRS and this data sheet for a similar product sold under a different name gives information you might find of help.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.
Re: Water softener.
I thought the ion exchange water softener should never supply the kitchen tap as it isn't suitable for drinking due to the sodium.
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AnthonyUK
Re: Water softener.
Brita filters are ion exchange which are marketed for drinking water.
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Wonkydonkey
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Re: Water softener.
I think they maybe just softening a bit, ie 50% ionic exchange. but, And As we should all know drinking pure water (RO deionised ) is not that good for you either. We need minerials, but some times not as much as what come out of the tap.
That said, I have had good brews by diluting tap water with RO. As long as you know you can understand a water report, then do a percentage, of the minerals, and add what ever you need (ie SO4) as there's not a lot this where I am.
That said, I have had good brews by diluting tap water with RO. As long as you know you can understand a water report, then do a percentage, of the minerals, and add what ever you need (ie SO4) as there's not a lot this where I am.
To Busy To Add,
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chris.laws.54943
Re: Water softener.
Until now my best brews have been aprx 2/3 shop bought and 1/3 tap. This is entirely unscientific however but based on best guessing! I've done quite a few AG brews (some more successful than others of course) but I'm very new to the idea of chemically manipulating the liquor. But learning is part of the fun isn't it? It certainly is for me.
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AnthonyUK
Re: Water softener.
This is arguably the most critical point of the whole process, getting the mash pH right.chris.laws.54943 wrote:I'm very new to the idea of chemically manipulating the liquor.