Oktoberfest water profile?

[Monkeybrew]

My next AG brew is going to be this - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70961

I also now know what my own tap water profile is, courtesy of Wallybrew's analysis -

Sodium as Na, mg/L - 50.0
Magnesium as Mg, mg/L - 11.2
Calcium as Ca, mg/L - 88.0
Chloride as Cl, mg/L - 78.5
Sulphate as SO4, mg/L - 89.2
Total alkalinity as CaCO3, mg/L - 158

So my question is, can anybody point me in the right direction for an Oktoberfest water profile, and then how best to treat my water? I have had a play on Graham's Water Treatment Calculator, so have a vague idea of what I'm doing

I have done a quick bit of looking online and didn't come up with too much info tbh.

Cheers

MB

[Monkeybrew]

Hmmn, done a bit more digging and I'm not sure that my water is very suitable for this style

MB

[Pinto]

Found this (yours in brackets) :

Ca 109 [88]
Mg 21 [11.2]
HCO3 171 [158]
SO 79 [89]
Na 2 [50]
Cl 36 [76]

Bit of brewing salts and you would have been good... but it looks like there's a lot of salt in your supply which suggests some ion exchange going on- do you have an inline water softener fitted m8 ?

Otherwise you'll be looking at RO or distilled for cutting back.

[Pinto]

On that topic

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-STAGE-AQUAR ... 3a80630a0e

£36 for a 2 gallon/hour system - that aint too bad if you make the occasional pilsner or oktoberfest...

[Monkeybrew]

Found this (yours in brackets) :

Ca 109 [88]
Mg 21 [11.2]
HCO3 171 [158]
SO 79 [89]
Na 2 [50]
Cl 36 [76]

Bit of brewing salts and you would have been good... but it looks like there's a lot of salt in your supply which suggests some ion exchange going on- do you have an inline water softener fitted m8 ?

Otherwise you'll be looking at RO or distilled for cutting back.

Cheers Pinto

I have also found some information in 2 different books that I have got (right under my nose).

I haven't got any inline water softening kit fitted to my kitchen supply. The only inline device that I have got, is where the cold feed goes into my combination boiler on the first floor. It's a push fit cartridge type thing.

After inputting my data in GW's water treatment calculator, the 2 figures in the initial ion balance check are very close and within the stated tolerance, so if I understand this correctly, it means that my water profile can actually exist. So I think that it just is what it is.

I might actually brew a Vienna Lager first, as certain elements of my water are nearer to that profile, and just adjust what I can to get the correct mash pH and then see how it drinks.

Cheers

MB

[Goulders]

The general thought is you shouldn't try to match a water profile. That profile is high in alkalinity and the Germans will undoubtedly treat it too. I've read somewhere with slaked lime. Your water probably has too high an alkalinity for an Oktoberfest beer. See this thread on treating water by Aleman for some useful info generally.

[mabrungard]

Munich water and that of much of Southern Bavaria is relatively hard and alkaline. However, German brewers learned long ago that it was very important to remove temporary hardness from their water with treatment by pre-boiling or lime softening. Both treatments leave the water somewhat softer and the alkalinity is reduced from its sky-high values. However, there is still a significant bicarbonate content remaining that must be neutralized with some form of acid.

As you probably know, Munich is known for both dark and pale styles. Its the use of roast malts to provide an acid that made their dark beers fine and it was the use of acid malt or saurergut in pale beers to make them fine.

With respect to the OP's water, both the Cl and SO4 content are too high for Southern Bavaria and that is likely to lend a more minerally note to the beers than you may prefer. It appears that some dilution is necessary. If there is still some alkalinity remaining in that diluted water, use of lactic acid or acid malt will be the preferred method since the lactate ion that is left behind will be more likely to produce the desired O'fest flavor.

For a look at what the Munich water looks like after its boiled and decanted, refer to the Munich (boiled) profile in Bru'n Water. That would be an appropriate target for an O'fest.

[Monkeybrew]

I think that I might be getting a little bit out of my depth with this style as a newbie to the world of brewing water

I had also considered brewing a Traditional Bock style beer, something big, brown and malty. Basically I need to brew with my WLP833 yeast before mid May, hence my desire to brew a German lager style beer.

Would I be naive to brew a bock with a profile similar to a Mild? In my mind it's like a high gravity mild (malty with a low IBU, but with German hops and brewed with a lager yeast)?

Cheers

MB