Have I got this correct?

[simon12]

Based on the below figures from my water report I think for a 23L batch I need to add 25ml CRS to a pale beer and 10ml to a stout. Is this about right or am I getting this wrong?

mg/l Ca mg/l CaCO3
Hardness 72 180.3
mg/l HCO3
Alkalinity 130.5

Thanks for any help.

[Jocky]

By my numbers 1ml/litre reduces carbonate by 182ppm.

Personally, if you're interested in adjusting your water then ignore the water report and get a salifert alkalinity test kit. Sorry, but my water report was taken about 3 years ago and is 100ppm out for alkalinity compared to when I tested it myself (and more recently had it analysed professionally).

[Eric]

Based on the below figures from my water report I think for a 23L batch I need to add 25ml CRS to a pale beer and 10ml to a stout. Is this about right or am I getting this wrong?

mg/l Ca mg/l CaCO3
Hardness 72 180.3
mg/l HCO3
Alkalinity 130.5

Thanks for any help.

It would be risky treating water based on a report from your supplier. Any figures will be historical and possibly averaged. Similarly the reduction in alkalinity needs to be confirmed by testing to take account of any potential variance in acid strength.

The figures, hardness is a measure of the combined amounts of calcium and magnesium present. The first figure, 72mg/l, is the amount of calcium required to produce the same quantity of hardness and 180.3mg/l the amount of calcium carbonate that would do the same. A litre of water containing 67mg of calcium and 3 mg of magnesium would have the above hardness but that would mean using guessed values based on averaged readings done in the past.

Alkalinity is given in terms of bicarbonate, although there are likely to be alkaline substances present that are not bicarbonates. I prefer to work with alkalinity in terms of CaCO3 which can be derived by dividing the HCO3 amount by 1.22, 107mg/l CaCO3 in this case. Now 1ml of CRS is said to neutralise the alkalinity of 183mg CaCO3 and for a pale beer it might be assumed you would want to reduce alkalinity by about 70mg/l CaCO3. All liquor should be treated and it would depend how much liquor you need to make 23 litres of beer, so I'll assume 35 litres. So 35 x 70 / 183 = 13.4 ml, a fair bit less than you suggested.
For a stout you will have higher alkalinity for the mash, but not as high for the sparge liquor to avoid unwanteds being extracted as the sugars are exhausted. This makes the calculation a bit more tricky, but with that water I'd be inclined to try mashing without any adjustment to alkalinity and sparge with maybe 50mg/l CaCO3 alkalinity which would require about 0.3ml CRS per litre of sparge liquor. A teaspoon of gypsum to the mash and another to the boiler would help for pale beers and similar amounts of calcium chloride flake for stout would be advantageous.

As said, you would be better prepared with a Salifert kit rather than assume an historic average will apply.

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I don't think I can add to what Eric has said. That is all you need to know to make really good beer.

[simon12]

Thanks guys, I know I want to do a proper test but wanted to see if I had calculated the numbers right. Eric sorry if i'm being stupid here but you calculated the CaCO3 by dividing the HCO3 by 1.22 giving 107mg but the report has a CaCO3 reading of 180.3mg (which is where I think my calculation differs from yours), please can you explain why your calculated CaCO3 differs from whats on the report and if my calculations where correct just based on the wrong numbers. Also are your gypsum and calcium chloride additions based on anything on the report or just good additions to any water for those styles. Thanks again.

[WallyBrew]

Eric sorry if i'm being stupid here but you calculated the CaCO3 by dividing the HCO3 by 1.22 giving 107mg but the report has a CaCO3 reading of 180.3mg (which is where I think my calculation differs from yours), please can you explain

mg/l Ca mg/l CaCO3
Hardness 72 180.3
mg/l HCO3
Alkalinity 130.5

The second line of the second quote has the word HARDNESS and 72 180.3
This is calcium = 72 and hardness = 180.3 as calcium carbonate.
HARDNESS has nothing whatsoever to do with alkalinity.
HARDNESS is a calculation. It is the sum of Calcium and Magnesium but could also include strontium and barium and anything else that titrates with ethylenediamineteraacetic acid disodium salt under the prescribed conditions all expressed as calcium carbonate. So for the purpose of brewing it is advisable to ignore anything where the word HARDNESS appears.
The only thing you need to know about HARDNESS is that it is generally good for brewing.

Hence, Eric has used the figure that is next to the word ALKALINITY on the 4th line. This is expressed as HCO3 as it says on the 3rd line

[Eric]

Also are your gypsum and calcium chloride additions based on anything on the report or just good additions to any water for those styles. Thanks again.

Just a rule of thumb starting point. Basically more sulphate than chloride emphasises bitterness compared to malt while more chloride than sulphate does the opposite, hence different additions for different styles.
From the figures you have it can be used to determine how much calcium (including magnesium) that is not part of the alkalinity and therefore exist as salts. My suggestions were just a rough and ready starting point.

[simon12]

Thanks again I think I have got it now.