Graham's water treatment calculator

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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guypettigrew
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Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by guypettigrew » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:11 pm

In Graham's calculator he has a 8:1 sulphate:chloride ratio for Burton pale ale.

Is this correct, please?

Thanks.

Guy

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Jim
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by Jim » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:47 am

I don't know, but have you read the notes Graham wrote to go with the calculator? https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/watertrea ... html#Note5

Extract:
Beer Types. The drop-down list also gives a few typical water compositions for various types of beer, the parameters for which will be automatically loaded into the boxes. These can either be used 'as is' or can be modified to suit circumstances by switching to automatic mode after selection. Bear in mind that these are not set in stone, and should not be regarded as definitive. In any case, what you will be able to achieve, or how close you will be able to get, will depend upon what you start out with. In any case, proper water treatment really entails reducing the carbonate to minimal levels and then ensuring sufficient calcium for proper mash pH, rather than attempting to match any particular water composition. This is contrary to much of the perceived wisdom in home-brewing circles, but it is a fact nevertheless.
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guypettigrew
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:17 pm

Thanks for that, Jim. Graham's notes are really helpful. I just suspect he made some sort of error when setting up the Burton formula. I always use the 'automatic' setting, so looking at what Graham has set up is for interest rather than anything else.

Tomorrow's brew will have a 5:2 sulphate:chloride ratio. Don't suppose it'll be much different to a 3:1 or 2:1 ratio, but you know how it is; you do it just because you can!

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barneey
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by barneey » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:41 pm

My advice would be to brew 2 identical brews with the exception of changing the ratio & see which you prefer.

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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by orlando » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:48 am

proper water treatment really entails reducing the carbonate to minimal levels and then ensuring sufficient calcium for proper mash pH, rather than attempting to match any particular water composition. This is contrary to much of the perceived wisdom in home-brewing circles, but it is a fact nevertheless.
In a nutshell you don't get better advice than that.
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by Robwalkeragain » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Brewing Elements Water has it around there too at 600ppm. Pretty heavy however so unless you’re brewing historic beers my taste is personally at at least half that. At work for the basic pale I’m at a much more sensible 3:1 with 150/60ppm and it’s much nicer.

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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by Eric » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:28 pm

Robwalkeragain wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
Brewing Elements Water has it around there too at 600ppm. Pretty heavy however so unless you’re brewing historic beers my taste is personally at at least half that. At work for the basic pale I’m at a much more sensible 3:1 with 150/60ppm and it’s much nicer.
On several occasions I've brewed near those historically high mineral levels and as a consequence don't anticipate doing so frequently in future. We tend to drink our beers young, too young, while at those levels I have found they take longer, typically several months, to reach their best. I also find beers with less than 100ppm chloride on the thin side.
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by Kev888 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:00 pm

I'm embarrassed to say that many years ago I would rather blindly just add spoons of gypsum to both mash and boil. So the sulphate levels were hundreds of parts per million whilst the chloride still only around forty ppm. These days I understand what this means for the beer, and indeed the results were not particularly to my taste plus (as mentioned above) the beer did take a long time to reach its relative best.

FWIW, these days I would consider sulphate to be getting unusually high even for pale beers by about 400ppm or so, and ditto for ratios of about 4x or more sulphate to chloride. Which isn't really a rule, just an indication of personal preferences (typically I would be well within these).
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by Jim » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:33 pm

Kev888 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:00 pm
I'm embarrassed to say that many years ago I would rather blindly just add spoons of gypsum to both mash and boil........

Same here. That was the received wisdom until the internet came along.
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Re: Graham's water treatment calculator

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:57 pm

Kev888 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:00 pm
I'm embarrassed to say that many years ago I would rather blindly just add spoons of gypsum to both mash and boil.
Ah, brings it all back!

Years ago I added Brupak's DWS to the mash at a rate of about 20g for a final volume of about 25L. Then it got more sophisticated (!) and I added CRS at a rate of 25 ml to the mash liquor, which was usually about 14 litres or less. Bonkers, but what did I know--nothing!!

Proves to me, though, how forgiving beer making is. If ever a batch needed throwing away (and a few did in those days) it was always down to an infection.

Nowadays, with Wallybrew's water analysis and huge help and tutoring from people on this forum, the CRS addition is much more controlled and the added salts are individually weighed and usually about 8g in total. And only added during the sparge.

The beers have improved considerably since then, but I sometimes wonder what would happen if I went back to the old 'chuck it in and hope' way of brewing!

Guy

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