Poor head retention with bitter kits

[Chris Parris]

Could I improve the head retention with Victorian and/or John Bull bitter kits, by adding some crushed wheat malt or flaked maize to the brew? If so, would I steep these grains for an hour or so, then add the wort to the kit for the boil, or can I add them to the extract during the 5 minute boil?

[stevezx7r]

Hi Chris, depends on how you make your kits. If this was an all grain recipe you would steep the torrified wheat (or other head retaining wheat) with the grains in the mash tun for around 60 mins at about 60 odd degrees (depending on what end result your after).

So, as an idea, if you have a mesh bag or similar, you could get say a thermos flask with water at your desired temp, fill said bag with your grains/torrifed wheat etc, pop it in and leave for an hour. Take it out, pour the liquor into your pan of wort etc and boil for, say, 30 mins, more if you fancy.

I wish I had thought of this when I was doing kits.

Let me know if you try this/if it works.

[mysterio]

Some people report increased head retention by dry hopping, which is also a way to enhance a beer kit - just put an ounce or so of East Kent Goldings (or whatever you prefer) in a sanitised muslin bag, tie it, drop it in the beer.

[Chris Parris]

Hi Chris, depends on how you make your kits. If this was an all grain recipe you would steep the torrified wheat (or other head retaining wheat) with the grains in the mash tun for around 60 mins at about 60 odd degrees (depending on what end result your after).

So, as an idea, if you have a mesh bag or similar, you could get say a thermos flask with water at your desired temp, fill said bag with your grains/torrifed wheat etc, pop it in and leave for an hour. Take it out, pour the liquor into your pan of wort etc and boil for, say, 30 mins, more if you fancy.

I wish I had thought of this when I was doing kits.

Let me know if you try this/if it works.

Many thanks, I hadn't thought of using a flask, but that seems a good idea so I'll try it! I normally dry hop with Fuggles, which improves the flavour but still doesn't seem to help with head retention.
I would prefer to brew with grains, but as a result of a few mishaps over the years, my brewery has been banished to the garden shed! I have all the necessary there, propane gas ring, immersion heater for the fermentation vessel and the pressure barrel, so I have adapted instead of giving up!
Regards,
Chris P.

[stevezx7r]

So would he not be able to "mash" the TW in a flask? Ok, he would need to calculate the correct amount of water required but surely this would work?

What's the difference between mashing and steeping?

[stevezx7r]

Ah, thanks for clarifying that DaaB.

So, without base malt i.e Maris Otter the TW wont do anything by being "mashed" in a flask.

Of course it now begs the question could Chris get say 100g MO and say 20g TW, an ounce of hops, and put the lot in a flask I suppose the more simple method would be a pan on a stove.

[StrangeBrew]

Victorian and/or John Bull bitter kits

Do these kits need to be boiled? If not, could this be the cause of the lack of head retention?

[stevezx7r]

Victorian and/or John Bull bitter kits

Do these kits need to be boiled? If not, could this be the cause of the lack of head retention?

No, most kits (unless otherwise stated) don't need to be boiled, however, I used to boil mine (10 mins) as a precaution against infection. Plus, if you wanted to add anything, that would be the time to do it

[Chris Parris]

So, without base malt i.e Maris Otter the TW wont do anything by being "mashed" in a flask.

No, you'll just release starch and get a starch haze.

Of course it now begs the question could Chris get say 100g MO and say 20g TW, an ounce of hops, and put the lot in a flask

It's messy using a flask. I'd make a small batch in a pan in the oven if you wanted to go down that route, see my mini mashing instructions for details.

Thanks to all for their input on this, just to clarify my question, I was not proposing to use Torrefied wheat, but "Crushed Wheat Malt"! Does this mean that it will be O.K. to steep the malt grains in a flask?
To answer the other question which was posed as a possible reason for the poor head retention, YES, these kits do need a short boil, around five to ten minutes, so I hope this clarifies the situation.
Thanks for providing such a useful forum, and thanks to all who have responded.
Regards,
Chris P.

[stevezx7r]

Hi Chris, this may answer you question (and more) http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/BrewingAr ... tSpecs.htm

Basically (as DaaB said) If it's an adjunct, it wont work in the way you want it to.

[Chris Parris]

I was not proposing to use Torrefied wheat, but "Crushed Wheat Malt"!

Same difference i'm afraid. You can buy various heading liquids and powders though.

I was unaware that John Bull kits require boiling, I never noticed that when I made them up in the past, I can't be sure though as I don't have one in front of me.

(Unhopped John Bull liquid extract and diastatic extract requires boiling, at least it did until British Diamalt closed its doors )

A wealth of expert advice at my finger tips! Thanks again, I will try the "Mini Mash" method first and report the results, (eventually!)
I have to admit that I have used the Victorian kit for the past few brews, so perhaps you are correct with regard to John Bull not requiring a boil.
If I use 250 grammes of crystal malt in my mini mash, should I reduce the quantity of soft brown sugar in the recipe? It normally uses 1 Kg and states, white granulated, but I prefer the soft brown variety.
Many thanks,
Chris P.

[sparky Paul]

None of the JB kits I've done have needed boiling.

However, I did a 3Kg Brewmaker ESB kit that said to simmer the semi-diluted extract for 5 minutes in the instructions. I did this, but I'm not sure what difference it made...

Reading through the thread, I was thinking the same as DaaB in the post above - try PGA heading powder.