English IPA

[Phat Cat]

Here is my working recipe for an English IPA. I thought it would be best to lay it on you guys.
I have only had a few bottled versions from the UK, Samuel Smiths, St. Pete's and McHewan's.
Most of the time when I get these they have been sitting on a shelf for a real long time and are either skunked or oxidized.

Marris Otter Pale Malt 4.99kg
Crisp Crystal 45 .45kg
Victory Malt .22kg
Crystal 120 .11kg

28gm EKG 6.5% 60minute
14gm 30min
28gm 10min
28gm 5min
28gm 0min
28gm dry hop


Thats all East Kent Goldings maybe some American grown Goldings. Mash at about 67c. Wyeast 1968 yeast.

Is that to hoppy? Not enough malt profile? I would really like to do an authentic English IPA, not an Americanized over hopped English IPA.

That recipe is almost exactly the same grain bill as what I have used for an American Pale Ale in the past and really liked, but was under hopped.

Wish I could taste a fresh sample.

[Graham]

What volume are you ending up with?
What original gravity are you going for?

Your recipe looks a little on the complicated side for authenticity.

Drop the Crisp crystal.
Drop the Victory.

Don't know your volume, but I would suggest that you are under hopped with your early hops.

Can't see the point of so many hop additions. Two would be adequate, plus, perhaps, some dry hops if it takes your fancy.

The KISS principle works well with British ales.

Look at the recipe HERE. It is typical and it got a good review at a new year's eve party. Actually the wheat malt isn't particularly typical, but it'll give you some idea of proportions. Don't know what volume Daab was going for, but it looks like 25 litres. I'm sure he'll chip in and tell you sometime soon.

[Phat Cat]

I am shooting for 5 gallons (18.92l) with an O.G. of 1.064

I have been surfing these recipes you guys post and have noticed they are really simple.

My early additions are a little light. I was counting on picking up IBU's later in the boil with all the additions.



Would you describe to me the taste of a well done local IPA, something you would consider a prime example of style?

On the link it doest' say what lovi bond the crystal malt is and I assume your adding the wheat for head retention? It really is a samll amount. I find I get great head retention with out using any wheat. Marris Otter is just a terrific malt.

I just noticed the sugar addition. Is this a common practice?

[Aleman]

Here are my initial thoughts on a 'proper' English IPA, as the majority of 'IPA's' nowadays are not. The thread for the brewday can be found Here Of course the thing with these is that they require extended aging, you really are talking of a minimum of 3-4 months in the keg before bottling. Looking at some of the other beers in the Durden park book you are still looking at 12+ months of aging (OG > 1.080 Predicted IBU > 190). Which I feel is the difference between English IPA and APA's, for some reason brewers on your side of the pond seam to think that these need to be drunk young, when they are incredibly bitter, given a proper duration to age then they become a truly sublime drink.

I will be posting out some bottles of 911 Resolve for review in a short time, its just shy of 3 months in the bottle, and is mellowing nicely.

[Phat Cat]

You guys laid down a lot of great info. You certainly have a different spin on beer there, especially IPA.

I don't know if you get some or any of the American beer books. I have been reading the Pale Ale book from the series written by Terry Foster I think. I know he is a Brit, but has been living here for the past 20 years or so. In his book he mentions most of what you wrote Daab, but I had never imagined an English IPA at 115 IBU's. Not even a whole lot of American beers get hopped that high. I figure a more balanced BU:GU leaning to bitterness.

I think I can get some Pendles but I don't know where to get the Worthington's White Shield, but I think it is available and have heard its a gold standard.

Unfortunately North Down is kind of a hard variety to get a hold of here in the states, especially with current hop shortage. I have had to substitute it in the past with Northern Brewer, does that sound appropriate to you? I have never smelled North Down.

So aging IPA? That is a new concept to me. I read your links Aleman and saw your recipe. How many IBU's was that? Aren't you looking for big hop aromatics in your IPA? Shouldn't they be there? I wouldn't consider making an IPA with out dry hopping it, or late kettle additions (2minutes at least). How much of the yeast character should there be do you think?

Yes we do drink ours young and really bitter. In fact I feel like they just can't make a beer bitter enough and I am not alone in that regard.
IPA's here are expected to have an in your face hop nose. With bitterness all the way through to the finish. Some of the East Coast Brewers have incorporated some malt character into their IPA's. IPA's in this country are very much regional. East Coast IPA is very different from IPA on the West Coast.

From my exposure I know it is really easy for me to over do this beer. I would like to brew something you guys would recognize. I am trying to learn how light of a touch you really need to get the expression of hops across in a beer. That they don't have to knock you over when you sniff your glass like I am accustomed too.

[Aleman]

So aging IPA? That is a new concept to me. I read your links Aleman and saw your recipe. How many IBU's was that? Aren't you looking for big hop aromatics in your IPA? Shouldn't they be there? I wouldn't consider making an IPA with out dry hopping it, or late kettle additions (2minutes at least). How much of the yeast character should there be do you think?

IPA's were brewed to survive the trip by sea from the UK to India, often 3 months or more and the temperatures in the hold could range from 45C down to 0C. Given this aging the hop nose would decrease significantly, in fact the whole hop character would change and marry with the malt character.

The Durden park Beer circle have looked a loads of old brewing ledgers from the 18th and 19th century, and produced equivalent recipes for homebrew lengths. Many of the recipes have a single addition of a single variety of hop, and that is it. Some will be dry hopped with 1/10 oz per gallon, but the number is quite low.

My historical IPA had an OG of 1.067 with a predicted bitterness of 130 IBU, but without actually measuring this there is little point in quoting it as it will vary between brewers and plant anyway. The perceived bitterness is something else, and TBH it does not taste (to me) that high, but then it is well balanced by the malt profile.

FWIW there is a couple of recipes in the Durden park book with hopping rates as high as 4oz of hops per gallon (UK not US), and predicted IBU's are above 200.

[Trough Lolly]

...If you want a good bench mark for producing a modern IPA, try Worthington White Shield if you can get hold of it, I believe it is currently 5.6% and is considered to be the granddaddy of modern IPAs

Graham has produced a recipe for White Shield back when the ABV% was 5.3% and it's basically,

Pale malt with a little crystal to 1051
Challenger and Northdown Hops (roughly equal) to 35 IBUs (more recent versions have 40 IBUs).
Colour 25 EBC

No late hops

G'day folks - first post on this forum! I enjoyed a bottle of this excellent IPA recently, during a palate calibration session and thoroughly enjoyed this beer, so I thought why not try to make an IPA like it (I won't be so silly to suggest that I could "clone" it!!).

Graham's recipe looks deceptively like a standard English Pale Ale - is it the Burton-on-Trent water that does the rest or is there something else that the Coors brewery does to this fine beer that you might be happy to share?

Here's another White Shield recipe that I found online:

The following recipe was taken from Dave Line's book "Brewing beers like those you buy"

Batch size 5 gallons US
OG 1.052
FG 1.012

Ingredients
6 1/2 lb 2 row pale malt
6 oz medium crystal malt
1 lb invert cane sugar
1 tsp Irish moss
1/2 oz Davis gelatin
2 oz Fuggles (90 minutes)
1 oz Golding (90 minutes)
1/2 oz Goldings (15 minutes)
1/4 oz Goldings (dry hop)
Worthington White Shield yeast starter
1/2 tsp per pint priming sugar

1. Heat 3.75 gals water for pale ale brewing to 140 degrees and stir in the crushed malts. Stirring continuously, raise the temperature to 151 degrees. Mash for 1 1/2 hours at 151 degrees.
2. Using slightly hotter water than the mash, sparge to collect 5 gallons of wort.
3. Add two oz Fuggles, and 1 oz Goldings. Boil for 90 minutes. While boiling, dissolve the invert sugar in a little hot water, and add to the boil. Add Irish moss as per directions
4. Switch off heat, add 1/2 oz Goldings. Steep for 15 minutes. Strain clear wort into fermenter and make up to 5 gals with cold water.
5. When cool, pitch with yeast and ferment for 4 - 5 days until gravity falls to 1.012. Rack to secondary fermenter, and add 1/4 oz Goldings and Gelatin finings.
6. Leave for 5 days, prime and bottle. Leave for 21 days to condition.

My changes.
Couln't get invert sugar. I added an extra 1/2 lb 2 row, and 1/2 lb flaked barley instead.
Used 2 1/2 gallons mash water, and sparged to 6 gallons.
Didn't have Fuggles, so I substituted 2 1/2 oz Goldings for the 2 oz Fuggles (Boiling and steeping hops were 5.0% aa plugs)
Used anonymous dry yeast as I couldn't get the White Shield.
OG 1.055
7 days in primary
Upped the dry hops to 1/2 oz pellets, 21 days in secondary.
FG 1.014
Substituted 3/4 cup corn sugar for the cane sugar suggested for priming.

Cheers,
TL

[Whorst]

If you want to taste a great example, try Twisted Thistle IPA by Belhaven. You should be able to find it in your local beer emporium. It's fabulous.

[mysterio]

Hmm, maybe I got a bad bottle of Worthington White Shield, I tried it about a year ago and thought it was really bland. Meantime IPA on the other hand, I reckon is the best modern-type English IPA on the market. I'm not sure if they export that to the states but it's a great beer.

Twisted Thistle IPA by Belhaven.

I keep hearing about these Scottish ales that you can't even buy here

[bconnery]

Hmm, maybe I got a bad bottle of Worthington White Shield, I tried it about a year ago and thought it was really bland. Meantime IPA on the other hand, I reckon is the best modern-type English IPA on the market. I'm not sure if they export that to the states but it's a great beer.

I think you did get a bad bottle.
A bunch of us had an IPA night recently and tried both these beers.
Worthington definitely stood as a good example. On another night I might have even gone great.
But the Meantime is fantastic. Some of the guys there were only familiar with really hoppy beers in an american contect. APAs, AIPAs, 2IPAs etc. and were amazed by the character of the Meantime.

As for IPAs I think it really comes down to what you want in an IPA. You can try and brew something reasonably authentic historically but you face issues with differences in malts, hops etc. But there is plenty of info out there and you can have a good stab.
You can also make a good interpretation by making a nice hoppy pale ale, similar to what you would for an AIPA, or a strong english pale ale, with lots of good hop character and malt to back it up.

Here's my latest attempt. It doesn't even begin to pretend to be historically accurate but it is lovely. Nice malt background with a fruity hop flavour coming through. At the low end for the 'style' according to certain guidelines, bang in the middle for a modern, which as said range from the very low 3.5% (which is just to low for me, as much as I have enjoyed beers at that level)...
It had some trouble finishing so I threw some Nottingham at it for the last few points...

OG 1057 FG 1013

Recipe: Third Fleet
Brewer: Mooshells
Asst Brewer:
Style: English IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (36.7)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Boil Size: 32.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 15.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 63.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5200.00 gm Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 87.76 %
300.00 gm Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.06 %
175.00 gm Carahell (Weyermann) (27.0 EBC) Grain 2.95 %
150.00 gm Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 2.53 %
100.00 gm Brown Malt (145.0 EBC) Grain 1.69 %
30.00 gm First Gold [7.70 %] (Dry Hop 4 days) Hops -
20.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (Dry Hop 4 days) Hops -
10.00 gm Pacific Gem [15.70 %] (60 min) Hops 19.0 IBU
30.00 gm First Gold [7.70 %] (20 min) Hops 16.9 IBU
30.00 gm First Gold [7.90 %] (10 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
20.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (10 min) Hops 6.9 IBU
15.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
20.00 gm Pacific Gem [15.70 %] (5 min) Hops 7.6 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275) Yeast-Ale

[mysterio]

I think you did get a bad bottle.
A bunch of us had an IPA night recently and tried both these beers.
Worthington definitely stood as a good example. On another night I might have even gone great.

I'll try it again next time I see it, probably. Thinking back, it was straight out of a 4C fridge from a pub that's not known for good beer. Plus I'd had a few drinks before I tried it.

[Trough Lolly]

...Many English bitters and IPAs have a very similar grain bill, they are very simple and let the quality of the grains and hops come through. Water does play its part and I suspect you are going to have to emulate it to make a true 'clone' but yeast is another very important factor and makes all the difference.

We have very soft and "clean" water here in Canberra - almost Pilsen like which make a nice "blank canvas" for copying waters from sources with much greater levels of salts such as Dublin, Burton, Dortmund, Munich etc etc. I'll use some gypsum and chalk in the mashtun...
As for yeast, I plan on making a starter with the yeast sediment in the fresh bottles of white shield that are currently in stock at the local bottlo - failing that the local brewclub members have Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale yeast in slurry and slants that I might be able to get access too!

FWIW, here's my standard / house IPA:

Batch Size = 21L
OG = 1.060 (75% efficiency)
FG = 1.012
Expected IBU's = 54

3.5kg Mariss Otter
1kg Weyermann Munich I
300g Crystal 40L
250g Bairds Amber malt
70g Roasted Barley
48g Goldings 7% A/A for 60 mins
12g Cascade 6% A/A for 20 mins
20g Fuggles (dry / aroma hop)
Wyeast 1099 Whitbread or 1028 London Ale

Cheers,
TL

[Eadweard]

If you want to taste a great example, try Twisted Thistle IPA by Belhaven. You should be able to find it in your local beer emporium. It's fabulous.

I think twisted thistle is great too, and they do a stronger version for export we can't buy here.

[mr bond]

Hmm, maybe I got a bad bottle of Worthington White Shield, I tried it about a year ago and thought it was really bland.

I tried it about 2 years back from bottle in Sth Oz(imported)and it was very ordinary. Maybe the transport ruined it, but it was a watery bland beer with a distinct soapy yeast bite in the tail.

[Trough Lolly]

Hmmm, I've also heard from others that they've had trouble making effective starters - looks like a fresh tube of WLP023 is in order.

Cheers,
TL