Lager temperature control

[MARMITE]

I'd be interested to know how you lager drinkers manage your temp control. I bought a wine refridgerator which operated within 4C - 18C so ideal for lager fermentation and serving beer at the correct temp. I was then going to get a chest freezer with the capacity to store 120 bottles at -2 - +7C. I thought once I'd lagered my first batch at -2C for 12 days then subsequeny batches could be stored at +4C and lagered until ready for drinking ( min of 12 weeks). However after 6 weeks my wine refridgerator has gone wrong and cannot be repaired. Because the fridge was an ex-display model Comet are only prepared to replace the fridge if I pay the full price ( another £40 although they will refund what I paid ).

I wonder how other people manage their lager production and whether I could adopt a better approach?

[maxashton]

You don't want to lager below freezing mate, it needs to be just above freezing.

[mysterio]

You can take a lager below freezing point, by a degree or two if you're careful. This can speed up the lagering process, apparently. Remember there's alcohol in there which lowers the point at which the beer itself will solidify.

Marmite, I use an ATC800 for the fermentation (as I believe many others on here do - search ebay for one). It has a probe which can be submerged in the beer and has a circuit for both heating and cooling, from 5 - 40 C. I use a small tubular heater and a fridge. I pitch the yeast at 7C (I use a Czech yeast mostly), then raise to 10C until completion, then raise a couple of degrees after 10 days just to make sure the yeast has cleared up any acetealdehyde & diacetyl.

After that, I switch the ATC off and use a Ranco thermostat for the lagering, bringing it down 2C every day thereafter. I'm too scared to turn it much below 1C because the differential isn't great, and i've frozen beer before.

[maxashton]

My reasoning was i err on the side of caution, wasn't trying to imply it isn't possible.

[mysterio]

Precisely my reasoning, I think i've frozen 3 lagers to date

[maxashton]

Did they shake back up ok, or did you have to tip em?

[Aleman]

They defrost fine

The trick is to actually get ice crystals to form, but not to freeze it solid. What happens is that the ice crystals form around the nucleation sites provided by protein fragments and any yeast cells. Then when they thaw they flocculate much better, and sediment out a faster rate.

What I do with mine is to take them to 2C and leave it there for two weeks then its down to -2C for two weeks, before coming back up to 8C for a week . . . The the clear beer is racked to another keg . . . ready for drinking.

[maxashton]

Aleman, good info, makes sense. Probably helps reduce nasties in the beer. Can't reproduce with ruptured cell walls, can they?

What kind of kit do you have that you get such fine control? Just a freezer and ATC-800?

[mysterio]

Yeah they defrost fine, but I dunno, they never seem quite right after that.

I wouldn't mind knowing how you get it so precise too, Aleman.

ATC only goes down to 5C, Max.

[maxashton]

Huh! Yes, i think we need elaboration here.

[hoppingMad]

I'd be interested to know how you lager drinkers manage your temp control

My system is pretty simple although possibly a bit labour intensive.
A regular fridge which is large enough for two carboys side by side. Temp control is by the use of a digital timer which plugs into the wall socket and the fridge plugs into this. Plus the fridge's own thermostat. I can control both fermentations and lagering to whatever temps I want. My thermometer is simply a strip type stuck to the side of the fermenter/carboy. But I do also have a digital probe type thermometer which tells me the air temp inside the actual fridge ( but not the beer temp)
I say labour intensive because I need to check the temps regularly to compensate for the lilitations of using a digital timer.

I might ad that here in NZ our ambient can be a bit low for a Diacetyl rest at 15-16 C. So I also have a tiny oil fin heater which sits inside the fridge It has a built in thermostat which does the job.
Fridge cost NZ 200 second hand. Digi timer $20 and the oil heater $29.

[MARMITE]

I am slowly coming round to the conclusion that I am going to have to buy 2 fridges - one with an ATC 800 or similar for fermentation, and one of larger capacity for lagering. The alternative solution would be to use 1 fridge and wait until the lagering had been completed ( 12 weeks or so at 4C) before fermenting my next batch. Unless anyone has any better ideas?

[alefric]

Marmite also try citizens advice.Once you have paid for a product the dealer is obliged to supply.The fact that he cannot replace your fridge with one at the same cost is not your problem it is his!.he must supply an item of merchantable quality and yours quite clearly is not.Also remember that electrical products that carry the CE mark have a 2yr guarantee under EU law.go on be awkward, make a fuss!

[ashbyp]

Yeah they defrost fine, but I dunno, they never seem quite right after that.

I wouldn't mind knowing how you get it so precise too, Aleman.

ATC only goes down to 5C, Max.

Ranco sell a dual circuit controller, similar to the ATC but range is -30C upwards. I use one in my fermenting fridge, in conjunction with a small tubular heater - works a treat. Hop and Grape supply them (the one of their website is single circuit, but they have the dual circuit also).

[ashbyp]

I am slowly coming round to the conclusion that I am going to have to buy 2 fridges - one with an ATC 800 or similar for fermentation, and one of larger capacity for lagering. The alternative solution would be to use 1 fridge and wait until the lagering had been completed ( 12 weeks or so at 4C) before fermenting my next batch. Unless anyone has any better ideas?

yup, lagering ties up the fermenting fridge for a long time... i made sure i had a huge supply of beer before i did my lager

ps: mine froze too. was fine aftre defrosting - even carbed up nicely in bottles without adding back any extra yeast.