Sticking Munton's (Woodfordes) Kits - Information and offer

[delboy]

My own experience withbrupaks was that they also stuck (these were two tin liquid malt kits) but did get a shade lower than the dreaded 1022-1020 of a typical muntons. I had to do the same as DaaB suggests and add some dry beer enzyme. This usually brings you down too far though, maybe a pinch of it rather than the whole packet is the way to go.

My advice to brewers would be to avoid the 2 can kits, get a good one can kit and add a kilo of spraymalt instead of sugar (essentially what the brupaks brewers choice is). Looking round the forum virtually everyone doing this seems to be very happy with the results (check out the coopers stout and spraymalt mountain that ditch has built up ) and crucially i don't think i've heard of a single complaint about sticking and its probably a little cheaper to do it this way.

[beer^]

Old Conkerwood in fementer for over two weeks and not budging from 1018. Crept very slowly from 1024 to 1018 over course of a week. Only stirred/agitated,nothing added.

Nevertheless, tasted ok at bottling.

[Curious Brew]

Munton's Montmellick Stout, over three weeks to get down to 1.012 after using yeast nutrient and finally Safale S04.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17202

[KevP]

Good I say, they plenty of time to reply with accurate responses, but no, we get fobbed off by company reps (not their fault) and then, it would seem, ignored.

I sent them an email over a week ago and had no reply so I guess they are waiting for us to get bored and move along, wrong.

Nice one Chris.

Meanwhile Coopers get my next 2 brews.

[kenny850]

Went into Brewgenie today for my next kit,came out with Coopers Brewmaster IPA, Muntons aint getting anymore of my dosh until they convince me there isnt an issue with their products,shame really as i quite fancied another bash at their Wherry which is a wonderful pint when all goes well. ARE YOU LISTENING MUNTONS.

[Hogshead]

I've only been brewing since Sept. and have been following this thread with interest. I've had excellent results with the 2 Wherry Kits both hitting 1014. Ive just sampled the Old Conkerwood thats been kegged for 10 days after 6 days in the FV hitting the design FG and again it's excellent if not a bit lively.

The only one I've had trouble with was Nelsons Revenge which would'nt go below 1016 even after j j j jiggling it a bit. Thats been supped now and and went down a treat, although after the stuff been drinking commercially lately anything would be an improvement.

I've got other Munton stuff on the go currently so if I have any problems I'll post it here.

[vacant]

I had to do the same as DaaB suggests and add some dry beer enzyme. This usually brings you down too far though, maybe a pinch of it rather than the whole packet is the way to go.

Does it work that way? I thought an enzyme was just a biological catalyst, i.e. it remains unchanged. So a pinch would just take longer.

[delboy]

I had to do the same as DaaB suggests and add some dry beer enzyme. This usually brings you down too far though, maybe a pinch of it rather than the whole packet is the way to go.

Does it work that way? I thought an enzyme was just a biological catalyst, i.e. it remains unchanged. So a pinch would just take longer.

Enzymes are proteins they break down over time, some in a matter of minutes and others over the course of days, the one in dry beer enzyme is a tough little cookie but even he must break down eventually so by adding less in the firsr place maybe it'll have broken down before it manages to dry out your beer completely.

[RichardG]

To be fair to Linda (and I can obviously only speak of my own experience) in my last two Muntons kits I changed the supplied yeast for S-04 and on each occassion have reached the target of 1014. My issue is with the claimed ABV (about which I have posted ad nauseum) which it would appear just isn't supportable!

[StrangeBrew]

Hi Linda,

thanks for your comments but if you had read this and other threads on this and other brewing forums then you would of realised that the problem of stuck fermentations with Muntons kits still happens even when the Muntons supplied yeast has been replaced with another reliable and highly regarded dry yeast. It's just happened to me again with a Woodfordes Great Eastern Ale brewed with Fermentis Safale04, stuck at 1.022.

It's good to know that Muntons are taking this seriously and have corrected a potential yeast sachet quality problem with their supplier but I don't believe this to be the main cause of Muntons stuck fermentations.

[jubby]

Linda, It's good to see some Muntons support. However, I can say from personal experience, that the yeast was not the cause. I used S04 in one of the kits and the final gravity was still high. There are lots of other similar posts on this subject which report the same findings.

One of my kits did have a dead yeast which was probably caused by poor sealing. You did replace this.

I think there will be many other replies similar to mine, so to be brutally honest, in my opinion, the bad yeast explanation is not sufficient.

Edit: Strangebrew, our messages crossed in the ether, yours got in first.

[alefric]

I have also replaced yeast in Muntons kits, usualy with Nottingham which is famous for fermenting the hell out of a beer and it has admittedly dropped to G1.012. However as Richard G has pointed out this does not alter the fact that the beers do not reach the ABV% suggested on the box, this would point to the wort and not the yeast as the culprit.

[MikeG]

A while back I made up a Woodforde's Wherry which didn't finish. I can't remember what the FG was but it was too high. Also, like jubby's Nelson's Revenge, the Wherry had an sharp aftertaste - a bit like baking powder. I still drank it all though!

[Graham]

Although in some cases poor yeast or insufficient aeration prior to fermentation might be the cause of a stuck ferment with these kits, it is certainly not the cause in a good many cases. All the proper remedial actions have been applied in a large number of reported instances to no effect. The only fix that universally works is adding amyloglucosidase, which eliminates the yeast and points to the sugar spectrum being wrong in the kit. Unfortunately adding amyloglucosidase is leaping out of the pan into the fire, because then the kit ferments too far.

It is almost certainly a sugar-spectrum problem. If it was anything else amyloglucosidase would not fix it and the problem would show itself in the smaller kits too, which seems not to be the case.

Ironically, this poorly fermentable extract would be a distinct advantage with the smaller kits because it would leave more body to compensate, in part, for the lorry-load of cane sugar that is added to them. It is inappropriate for the 3kg+ kits though.

This is not a new thing; it has been going on for a long time, and there must be thousands of instances of this happening to people that do not frequent this forum and many who do not know any better. It thus does make one wonder why this has not been caught before now.

[delboy]

Although in some cases poor yeast or insufficient aeration prior to fermentation might be the cause of a stuck ferment with these kits, it is certainly not the cause in a good many cases. All the proper remedial actions have been applied in a large number of reported instances to no effect. The only fix that universally works is adding amyloglucosidase, which eliminates the yeast and points to the sugar spectrum being wrong in the kit. Unfortunately adding amyloglucosidase is leaping out of the pan into the fire, because then the kit ferments too far.

It is almost certainly a sugar-spectrum problem. If it was anything else amyloglucosidase would not fix it and the problem would show itself in the smaller kits too, which seems not to be the case.

Ironically, this poorly fermentable extract would be a distinct advantage with the smaller kits because it would leave more body to compensate, in part, for the lorry-load of cane sugar that is added to them. It is inappropriate for the 3kg+ kits though.

This is not a new thing; it has been going on for a long time, and there must be thousands of instances of this happening to people that do not frequent this forum and many who do not know any better. It thus does make one wonder why this has not been caught before now.

I wonder is this at the heart of the problem, is the mash schedule set up to a default one that has been optomised for the one can and a bag a sugar style kit, which as Graham says would benefit from a more dextrinous wort. That would explain a lot, although surely to god you would think they would have picked up on something as obvious as that