First Lager

[randomdave]

The perroni and san miguel bottles are absolutly sound. Ive been using em now since september, also enjoyed the process of accruing those bottles. When I prime Im using about 180g of sugar for 23lt. Its jsut the right amount of fizz for me and not had one of the bottles pop.

You could us one of the cider bottles an see how it goes. Put it somewhere it cant cause damage if it does pop.

[WeegieBlue]

I moved my lager from the first FV to another yesterday. It's quite cloudy with some decent chunks floating about in it too! I'm going to use Coopers Carbonation Drops with this rather than spraymalt - is this a good or bad idea? I'm bottling on Wed once it's had time to settle a bit.

Also, I was considering using finings to make sure it drops completely clear as I don't like the idea of a cloudy lager this summer. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or is it generally recommended to do this for a lager?

Thanks in advance for the advice folks

[WeegieBlue]

Well, I added fininings this morning and will be bottling tomorrow evening, which should give it time to do its thing. 2 carb drops into a 730ml bottle and then a couple of weeks in the warm followed by 6-8 weeks in my cold shed.

Will the slight variations in temperature in the shed have a dramatic effect on the lagering process? With this being Glasgow the temperature is likely to be fairly cold throughout, probably varying between 3 and 10 degrees I'd imagine. I'm hoping this will be fine, as the only other option is the loft, which is probs the same sort of range.

[mercilessrich]

WeegieBlue it seems we are on the same quest, albeit at opposite ends of the country.

I bottled my Muntons Pilsner Yesterday and gave them the first 'shake' today. They're bloody cloudy and quite a bit of sediment has settled at the bottom already (more thann you see in bottle conditioned ales). I'm thinking I should have used finings, have i knackered my brew? Im keeping them in the same warm flat i brewed them in and am worried they wont carbinate. Had 4 days primary FV and 2 days 2ndry FV.

I'm paranoid, all I can think about is the brew!

[WeegieBlue]

WeegieBlue it seems we are on the same quest, albeit at opposite ends of the country.

I bottled my Muntons Pilsner Yesterday and gave them the first 'shake' today. They're bloody cloudy and quite a bit of sediment has settled at the bottom already (more thann you see in bottle conditioned ales). I'm thinking I should have used finings, have i knackered my brew? Im keeping them in the same warm flat i brewed them in and am worried they wont carbinate. Had 4 days primary FV and 2 days 2ndry FV.

I'm paranoid, all I can think about is the brew!

Morning!

This is only my 3rd brew so I'm no expert, but I've left all of my brews in the FV for 7 days min, and the lager was 7 days in FV and has been 3 days in 2ndry FV. My first brew I found to be a bit yeasty so I bought a 2ndry so I could allow the beer to drop a little more before bottling. My second brew was a wherry and there is very little sediment in the bottles and it is as clear as a bell - it's been in the bottles for about a week in a warm place and I'm about to move them into the loft for a few weeks to improve as it's tasting a bit green. I think the 2ndry had a massive effect on this, even though it was only in it for a couple of days.

I'm not sure how my lager is looking yet but I'm bottling it tonight so I'll let you know. It's the first time I've used fininings so it's all new to me too, but I just thought I'd be happy drinking a cloudy ale, but not too happy drinking a cloudy lager. What bottles have you used? Did you get 2 consistent readings from your hydrometer before you bottled? What did you use to prime? The only thing I'd be worried about is if you've bottled it before the yeast had finished its job. I'd say leave it a week or two and then crack one open and see what it's like. If it's nice and fizzy and tastes ok, but is just a bit cloudy, you'll be fine as long as you pour slowly.

But hey, it's a learning process, so if this one doesn't go right, you'll know for next time!

[WeegieBlue]

I bottled my lager last night and it's looking pretty special! I didn't use the full 20l as recommended and went for around 18.5l to give it a bit more strength. The fininings did an ok job and cleared it quite well but it was still a tiny bit cloudy when in the bottle - it actually looked like condensation on the bottle it was so subtle - but I'm happy with that. Popped a couple of carb sweeties in my 730ml PET bottles, filled them up and then gave them a good shake. The pressure in the bottles changed with the first shake - not rock hard but obviously the drops were doing their job.

The bottles are now in a warm place where they'll stay until the end of Feb, and then March and April they'll go up to my loft for lagering. May 1st is a Friday and this will be beer tasting day!!

[mercilessrich]

Sounds like you've done a good job!

I waited untill it got to below 1020, which it stayed for 2 days before transfering to the 2ndry FV. In hindsight i could have chucked some more yeast in to try and get it down a bit. I know 4 days isn't long but my flat is warm and I was worried about bottling too late and not carbonating. By the time I transfered it looked like it was dropping with less scum at the top etc.

I transfered to a keg and used 150g refined cane sugar dissolved in boiled water to prime. Added, gave a gentle strir and waited about 20mins before bottling. What 2ndry do you use? Does the choice of vessel matter?

I used a range of bottles- peroni, moretti, sna miguell and a load of katys/brothers cider bottles I nicked from a pub. Bit worried the latter wont stand up to the pressure of lager. Maybe next time I'll use a couple of plastics to test for carbonation.

Just gave them a bit of a shake (which ive heard you have to do daily to encourage carbonation?) and they're settling out. Lots of yeast at the bottom. Are you shaking the bottles daily?

Rich

[randomdave]

You dont need to shake the bottles daily. Ive never shaken any of mine an they have carbonated perfectly.

[WeegieBlue]

Sounds like you've done a good job!

I waited untill it got to below 1020, which it stayed for 2 days before transfering to the 2ndry FV. In hindsight i could have chucked some more yeast in to try and get it down a bit. I know 4 days isn't long but my flat is warm and I was worried about bottling too late and not carbonating. By the time I transfered it looked like it was dropping with less scum at the top etc.

I transfered to a keg and used 150g refined cane sugar dissolved in boiled water to prime. Added, gave a gentle strir and waited about 20mins before bottling. What 2ndry do you use? Does the choice of vessel matter?

I used a range of bottles- peroni, moretti, sna miguell and a load of katys/brothers cider bottles I nicked from a pub. Bit worried the latter wont stand up to the pressure of lager. Maybe next time I'll use a couple of plastics to test for carbonation.

Just gave them a bit of a shake (which ive heard you have to do daily to encourage carbonation?) and they're settling out. Lots of yeast at the bottom. Are you shaking the bottles daily?

Rich

I'd recommend getting a couple of packets of dried yeast in as spares as ferments that stop sometimes just need a little encouragement! From what I've read, there's always a fair amount of yeast kicking about in suspension and once that goes into the bottles with the primer it gets to work carbonating, so I wouldn't worry too much about it dropping to the point of being flat. The only thing you need to make sure is that your beer has carbonated before you move it out into the cold as once it's out there the yeast stops working and when you crack one open it will be flat. If that is the case, moving them back into the warm should reactivate the yeast and start carbonation again - and you're back to shaking bottles!!

I've read is that you shouldn't leave the beer on the yeast cake for more than 10 days as it can start affecting the taste of the beer, which I why I transfer to a 2ndry after a week or so. I have two 30l brew bins, one with a tap and one without. The one without has really good handles so I use this for my primary as I have to lug it up the stairs for fermenting in my cosy warm cupboard! The lid is also quite easy to pop off so I can test with the hydrometer without any bother. The second is a screw top with a tap and I siphon from my 1st to the 2nd and then leave the beer in there for a few days to settle and then bottle using a bottling stick. I don't think it matters too much to be honest - whatever you find is easier. I would definitely say it'd better to bottle from one with a tap that one without!

I only bottled last night so I gave them their first wee shake and I'll probably shake daily for the first week or so and then after that just when I remember. The good thing with the plastic bottles is you can squeeze them to see how carb'd they've become. If the bottles are rock hard within a fortnight I might get away with starting the lagering earlier and getting them in the loft by say Feb, and then testing the first one in mid-March to make sure all is well. My loft will probs stay below 10 degrees until the end of April so it'll be perfect for final conditioning. Where will you be lagering yours?

[mercilessrich]

Yeah ive done that now, going for safale 04 and saflager 23. Thanks that does reassure me, theres plenty of sediment at the bottom and I reckon I'm keeping them at between 18 and 20 degrees for carbonation.

Sounds like a similar plan to mine, i made my own 'bottling stick' usine tubing that reaches to the bottom of the bottle. I'm going to lager in a garage that should stay pretty cool but hopefully not freezing. Will be at least mid feb by the time i move, if there's a frost will it bugger them up? I'm down on the south coast so unlikely, but then its been snowing loads lately!

So you leave for at least 2 months? Seems like quite a while, do they really need that long?

[WeegieBlue]

Yeah ive done that now, going for safale 04 and saflager 23. Thanks that does reassure me, theres plenty of sediment at the bottom and I reckon I'm keeping them at between 18 and 20 degrees for carbonation.

Sounds like a similar plan to mine, i made my own 'bottling stick' usine tubing that reaches to the bottom of the bottle. I'm going to lager in a garage that should stay pretty cool but hopefully not freezing. Will be at least mid feb by the time i move, if there's a frost will it bugger them up? I'm down on the south coast so unlikely, but then its been snowing loads lately!

So you leave for at least 2 months? Seems like quite a while, do they really need that long?

Good choices there - that's generally what I keep in stock too.

If the beer freezes, you'll have exploding bottles! I don't think it'll happen but keep an eye on it as that'd be the last thing you'd want. I'm a bit worried about my Wherry in the loft but I'm hoping they just get cold rather than frozen. If they go, there'll be a right old mess and the missus will probably also explode! I'd just keep an eye on the weather and hope for the best. It was -9 the other morning where I live and that would defo cause a few problems I think - hopefully the real cold stuff is done and dusted and my loft will just be cool now.

I think the lagering process can take a few months depending what you've brewed. Have a read here http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-5.html and see what you think. As I made mine with less water to get a higher alcohol content, I think I'd be better letting it lager for as long as I can. Generally, I think it's one of those "the longer you leave it, the better it gets" kinda stories, but I suppose you could give it a couple of weeks if you got thirsty! I have about 40 pints of wherry to keep me amused to I'm going to try to leave the lager as long as possible. It was made with the aim of getting everyone merry at the first of the summer BBQ's so I really should be aiming to leave it until then. We'll see how I get on though - if it's too tasty I might struggle!

[mercilessrich]

Cheers thanks for the advice. Just given them another shake, away for the weekend so hope they dont explode! Going to leave it 2 weeks for secondary then crack a test one and see what its like. The anticipation.

[WeegieBlue]

Cool, well keep me posted, and enjoy your weekend!

[WeegieBlue]

Just looking for a wee bit of advice here.

My lager has been bottled for 6 days now and all of the bottles are quite firm, and it looks like they've carbonated pretty successfully. I'd given them a little shake during the week to rouse what little sediment there was and it seems to have done the job.

I was intending on leaving these for around the 21 days recommended, but I was wondering whether it was worth moving them into the loft now for cold conditioning since they've carbonated well already, or whether I should wait the 2 weeks I intended and then cold condition them?

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions fellow forummers??

[mercilessrich]

Hmmm I was thinking exactly the same thing! Was at my HBS on sat and asked the wise guru how long it takes and he was adiment that 2ndry only takes a few days (as only a small amount to ferment). I cracked open a test bottle last night and found it was excellently carbonated- nice fizz when opening, didn't go flat in half an hour of drinking and kept its (very respectable) head. It was still cloudy and not as crisp as id like but haven't even started to condition yet.

I'm no pro but I'd say if you can crack open a representive test bottle to see what its like, maybe you can put in the loft soon?