Dave Line's Book - Saccharin ?

[Waffty]

Hi,

After buying Graham's book, I thought I'd complete the 'set' & got for Dave Line's book.

I've looked at a few receipes in Dave's book, which call for the addition of Saccharin tables, which I'm a little reluctant to add, as ideally, I'd like to keep my brews as natural/traditional as possible plus the adding an Aspartame alternative scares me as Aspartame is gathering a scary rap sheet of it's own.

So what can I use as an alternative + what quantities should I use them in i.e 1:1 etc ?

Thanks
Darren,

[delboy]

If its an issue for you I would just leave them out, I think in Daves time the dry yeasts available (gervin i suppose) was seen as being more attenuative than their brewery counterparts. To create that residual sweetness that commercial beers had he advocated using a small amount of artificial sweetners, 5 or 10 tablets in 5 gallons IIRC.

You could of course just use a less attenuative yeast such as s04 or Windor, personally thats the way I would go not because of any food scare stuff (tend to be a lot of pseudo-science nonsense) but because I would get a better sense of satisfaction knowing that i had tailored the beer by picking the right yeast for the job

[Waffty]

If its an issue for you I would just leave them out, I think in Daves time the dry yeasts available (gervin i suppose) was seen as being more attenuative than their brewery counterparts. To create that residual sweetness that commercial beers had he advocated using a small amount of artificial sweetners, 5 or 10 tablets in 5 gallons IIRC.

You could of course just use a less attenuative yeast such as s04 or Windor, personally thats the way I would go not because of any food scare stuff (tend to be a lot of pseudo-science nonsense) but because I would get a better sense of satisfaction knowing that i had tailored the beer by picking the right yeast for the job

Delboy, I think you're on the money there, as he does mention Gervin yeast So I'll have a play with BeerSmith, as it does give a resasonable FG target & also allows you to chop and change yeast varieties, to get a suitable answer.

So what FG would I expect a 5 Saccharin tablet brew to end up at ? Plus if I really needed to add a sweetness 'twang' couldn't I just add a none fermenting sugar, such as Lactose to the final brew (or during the brewing process itself?) ?

Thanks.
Darren.

[boingy]

You can also adjust the sweetness and body by making small changes to the mash temperature. Save the lactose for the milk stout....

[Minger]

A word to the wise, I have what i and my Doctor believe is Aspartame poisoning, i get terribly sharp pains in just about every part of my body, some times the pains last for a couple of hours, other times just a minute or so, the pain is reduced through tablets but not totally.

There is no test for Aspartame poisoning, and no cure either, so if you take my advise, touch nothing at all with aspartame in it, and definitely don't let your children have pop with Aspartame in it.

Also remember that the producers of Aspartame keep changing the name of it, the sweetener Canderel, is in fact Aspartame and there are a few other names also.

[steve_flack]

Obviously there are some people shouldn't consume aspartame (like those with a phenylalanine intolerance) but that's pretty rare. It's probably the most extensively tested food additive out there.

Having said that I don't touch the stuff either because usually stuff with it in tastes like arse.

Back to the original topic, some of the more mainstream Belgian fruit beers contain saccharin to make them more palatable to girlies and the alcopop generation.

[ChrisM]

Hi Just found the site. I am a great follower of Dave Line as he was the master of Homebrew!

Just caught the discussion on artificial sweeteners or not.
Found a cider farm here in Somerset in UK uses saccharin in its cider or rather its indifferent 'cider vinegar' - a lesson to us all. Don't do it!

Dave does suggest the use of Lactose (milk sugar) as it is a non-fermentable sugar, which if you can get it is probably the way out to getting the residual sweetness. No idea on the amount but nothing wrong with good old trial and error. I certainly would avoid saccharin and Aspartame.

You could also try Sucralose (trade name:Splendar) - this is manufactured from sugar and is now replacing Aspartame in fizzy drinks.

PS: Try Dave Line's recipe for King and Barnes Sussex Mild - a real winner, sadly K&B sold out to Hall & Woodhouse who now brew it but it cannot be the same.
--
ChrisM

[ColinKeb]

Ive followed dave line recipes a fair bit and have tried using sweetners etc , to be honest it tastes better without them. I think the comments about the differences in yeasts might well be on the button. I have never thought the resulting brews could do with a bit of sweetner when Ive left it out.

[SiHoltye]

PS: Try Dave Line's recipe for King and Barnes Sussex Mild - a real winner, sadly K&B sold out to Hall & Woodhouse who now brew it but it cannot be the same.
--
ChrisM

It isn't

[Graham]

I too have been bemused by Dave Line's fondness for saccharine. I've just dragged out the book to have another look, and it seems, by looking at the recipes, that it might be based on a misconception. That misconception being that beers that are typically regarded as sweet are physically sweet, as in sweet tea, whereas it is hop balance - meaning not very bitter that is really the case - not proper sweetness. It is out of character for Dave Line to have been caught out like this, but looking at the recipes it seems to be the explanation.

If the recipe is for a strong beer of the type that could be regarded as an ale, or a moderately strong beer with the word "ale" in its name, then 90% of the time 5 saccharine tablets are chucked in. But if a beer is called a "bitter", then no saccharine tablets are specified. I regret to say that I think he got this wrong.

There is possibly an argument for it in the case of certain commercial "Sweet" stouts, where the stouts were artificially sweetened by priming with or low-fermentable sugars, or primed with cane sugar just before bottling and then pasteurised to prevent further fermentation, but I am not altogether convinced of that. but certainly not in the case of "Ales".

So, with the possible exception of sweet stouts, you can safely ignore the saccharine.

[boingy]

In addition to boosting the "residual sweetness" Dave Line also advocated saccharin to compensate for the fact that the dried yeast available at the time had a tendency to over-attenuate so the sweeteners went some way to reducing the thinness of the beer. I agree that they are not necessary with modern techniques and yeasts.

Having said that, I have used sweeteners a couple of times to rescue an otherwise undrinkable beer. This was beer that was just way out of balance after secondary (due to a dumbass brewer screwing up the recipe). If Jim ever gets the Wiki going I can see a fun section called "Rescuing Your Brew"....