This one went in the fermenting bin last weekend. Thought i'd share in case anyone has opinions. I'l update as it progresses.
Banana Stout (23 litres)
Grain:
2500g Pale Malt
500g Toasted Oats
200g Rosted Barley
200g Flaked Barley
200g Crystal Malt
150g Torrified Wheat
Hops:
10g Herkules - 90m
30g EKG - 90m
Extras:
5g Irish Moss - 15m
15 peeled, mashed and pasteurised bananas - secondary fermentation - as below.
Yeast:
Munton's Gold
It will be left to ferment for 5-6 days in primary, and then will be transferred to another bin with the bananas added, and fermented again. I am thinking there will be a lot of natural sugar in 15 bananas, so the grain bill is quite light. I don't want it to be too killer!
15 nanas should be enough for a noticable taste, right? Or should i go for 20 +?
Banana Stout
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Barley Water
- Under the Table
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:35 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: Banana Stout
I don't know if I would screw around with banannas at all, why not use a wheat beer yeast? WLP300 can make beer smell and taste very "bananna" under the right fermentation conditions (ferment around 68F). You also get some bananna with WLP500 which is the Chimay yeast, again under the right conditions. By the way, both these strains are very temperature sensitive so you will need some way to control that or this option will not work.
One more option for you, brew a weisbier and blend the stout and the weisbier together. I was bottling once and ended up mixing a weizen with a porter, very interesting tasting concoction. The advantage to this method is you can screw around with the proportions until you get what you are after (and you can also abandon the whole thing without brewing 23 liters of it if you decide you don't really care for the way it comes out). Just a couple of thoughts.
One more option for you, brew a weisbier and blend the stout and the weisbier together. I was bottling once and ended up mixing a weizen with a porter, very interesting tasting concoction. The advantage to this method is you can screw around with the proportions until you get what you are after (and you can also abandon the whole thing without brewing 23 liters of it if you decide you don't really care for the way it comes out). Just a couple of thoughts.
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
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dave-o
Re: Banana Stout
Barley Water wrote:I don't know if I would screw around with banannas at all, why not use a wheat beer yeast?
Well this one is certainly going to be as specified above, although my next few forays into ale will be wheat beers, so i will certainly consider what you have mentioned.
I want to try real bananas as i am not convinced a yeast will impart quite the amount of natural banana flavour i am hoping for.
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CJBrew
Re: Banana Stout
Banana stout is an idea I've not heard of before...
The one and to be only time I have attempted to brew with bananas it became so incredibly, hideously and disgustingly infected I'm not going down that road again. I did email Wells brewery to enquire about how they make their Banana Bread beer, the brewer that responded was understandably cagey, and wouldn't say how he did it!
However, I quote:
"you will find that it will take a considerable amount of trial and error before you get the balance of banana sweetness to match the bitterness of the base beer. The level of ripeness of the bananas will also significantly affect the flavour."
-- which implies that they use real bananas and not extracts. But I'd feel safer using banana extracts that can be very carefully titrated into your beer until you get the right flavour, without risking the fermentation products of the fruit. For what it's worth I expect you'd get a much better banana flavour that way too.
The one and to be only time I have attempted to brew with bananas it became so incredibly, hideously and disgustingly infected I'm not going down that road again. I did email Wells brewery to enquire about how they make their Banana Bread beer, the brewer that responded was understandably cagey, and wouldn't say how he did it!
However, I quote:
"you will find that it will take a considerable amount of trial and error before you get the balance of banana sweetness to match the bitterness of the base beer. The level of ripeness of the bananas will also significantly affect the flavour."
-- which implies that they use real bananas and not extracts. But I'd feel safer using banana extracts that can be very carefully titrated into your beer until you get the right flavour, without risking the fermentation products of the fruit. For what it's worth I expect you'd get a much better banana flavour that way too.
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dave-o
Re: Banana Stout
Interesting. How did you treat the bananas before adding them? And at what point did you add them?CJBrew wrote: The one and to be only time I have attempted to brew with bananas it became so incredibly, hideously and disgustingly infected I'm not going down that road again.
I would think he's implying that you don't use bananas that are too ripe, as there won't be so much fructose at that point.CJBrew wrote: The level of ripeness of the bananas will also significantly affect the flavour."
I'm thinking when they've just turned from green to yellow, and are still pretty hard and chalky.
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CJBrew
Re: Banana Stout
yes, I should probably have pasteurised them properly -- I think I brought them to a poach in a little water. I added the banana to a demijohn after racking from primary. Messy, gushy secondary fermentation... (banana is hard to clean from an airlock)...CJBrew wrote:
The one and to be only time I have attempted to brew with bananas it became so incredibly, hideously and disgustingly infected I'm not going down that road again.
Interesting. How did you treat the bananas before adding them? And at what point did you add them?
I'll look up my recipe when I get home.
Wouldn't there be more fructose in a ripe banana?I would think he's implying that you don't use bananas that are too ripe, as there won't be so much fructose at that point.
I'm thinking when they've just turned from green to yellow, and are still pretty hard and chalky.
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dave-o
Re: Banana Stout
I'm hoping thatCJBrew wrote:
yes, I should probably have pasteurised them properly -- I think I brought them to a poach in a little water. I added the banana to a demijohn after racking from primary. Messy, gushy secondary fermentation... (banana is hard to clean from an airlock)...
a) proper pasteurisation and
b) Adding after primary ferment when there is already a fair bit of alcohol
will help avoid infection
Yes, that's what i was saying. Perhaps i didn't put it well.CJBrew wrote: Wouldn't there be more fructose in a ripe banana?
There is every chance this will not work, but it's something i'm going to try, as I see homebrewing as a way of making experimental beers that are not available in shops. I have two pretty full barrels of other ale, so it's not like i'm going to dry out if this doesn't work!
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CJBrew
Re: Banana Stout
Let us know how you pasteurise the bananas, I'd be interested.There is every chance this will not work, but it's something i'm going to try, as I see homebrewing as a way of making experimental beers that are not available in shops. I have two pretty full barrels of other ale, so it's not like i'm going to dry out if this doesn't work!
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dave-o
Re: Banana Stout
OK i've just racked the stout onto the bananas. Here's what i did:
Chopped the bananas into slices and put them in a big pan
Added 1/2 a teaspoon of sodium metabisulphate and about 1.5 litres of water
Brought this to the boil, turned the heat down low, put the lid on and let it simmer for 20 minutes
The bananas were pretty soft, but had not turned completely to mush.
I had a taste of the stout while i racked it onto the bananas, and i have to say it was great, for a beer at that stage of its life. Really biscuity and wholegrainy. That'll be the crystal and the flaked barley i suppose. I've got high hopes for this beer!
I think i would up the roast barley to 300g next time though. It is nice and dark but not quite as deep as a commercial stout.
Chopped the bananas into slices and put them in a big pan
Added 1/2 a teaspoon of sodium metabisulphate and about 1.5 litres of water
Brought this to the boil, turned the heat down low, put the lid on and let it simmer for 20 minutes
The bananas were pretty soft, but had not turned completely to mush.
I had a taste of the stout while i racked it onto the bananas, and i have to say it was great, for a beer at that stage of its life. Really biscuity and wholegrainy. That'll be the crystal and the flaked barley i suppose. I've got high hopes for this beer!
I think i would up the roast barley to 300g next time though. It is nice and dark but not quite as deep as a commercial stout.
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floydmeddler
- Telling everyone Your My Best Mate
- Posts: 4160
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:37 pm
- Location: Irish man living in Brighton
Re: Banana Stout
Fair play man! Nice to see people taking chances. Looking at your current brews, you're a bit of an experimenter! Would love to try your beers... don't have the guts to brew them myself! Furthest I've gone is adding fresh ginger!
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dave-o
Re: Banana Stout
Just a quick update:
After a week, all the pieces of banana had sunk to the bottom and there seemed to be little or no fermentation activity.
I racked the beer to another vessel to be fined and then bottled.
The banana pieces didn't seem to have changed greatly - i had imagined they would have turned to mush, but they were still pretty much intact. I tried tasting one, and it was highly strange. It was like a soggy banana but with absolutely no banana taste and no sweetness. So it does seem as if all (or most of) the fructose has been fermented, and hopefully some of the flavour imparted to the beer.
On tasting, i was a little disappointed that it had lost a lot of the biscuit/wholegrain taste, but it was still a little too bitter. I can't quite decide if it has a banana taste. Perhaps time will tell.
After a week, all the pieces of banana had sunk to the bottom and there seemed to be little or no fermentation activity.
I racked the beer to another vessel to be fined and then bottled.
The banana pieces didn't seem to have changed greatly - i had imagined they would have turned to mush, but they were still pretty much intact. I tried tasting one, and it was highly strange. It was like a soggy banana but with absolutely no banana taste and no sweetness. So it does seem as if all (or most of) the fructose has been fermented, and hopefully some of the flavour imparted to the beer.
On tasting, i was a little disappointed that it had lost a lot of the biscuit/wholegrain taste, but it was still a little too bitter. I can't quite decide if it has a banana taste. Perhaps time will tell.