TOTTON PUMP GP 20/12- with voltage speed control

[Scooby]

This is the standard type of return most use but I don't think the design matters much as long as the flow causes little grain disturbance.

[ajh800]

No not really. I think the pictures and video did the job! So would I be right in thinking there would he enough pressure in the mt to just open the tap and run back up into the mash or are you using the pump all the time? I'd like to do this also but haven't got it all figured out yet. In the end the chinook blades were gravity fed and it did the job. I've got horrible feeling my efficiency went down though as I couldn't fit all the runnings into the boiler!

You'll have it nailed next time.

Gonna have mash tun on kitchen chair, do mash 2.5ltr per kg grain, top up with water to make half of batch at end of mash. Connect pump (situated at floor level) to mash tun, pump back upto mash tun. When runnings nice and clear will start draining wort. Might do a batch sparge (as used to) and repeat process. Or sparge using water from HLT/boiler gravity fed through drilled 15mm copper pipe to sprinkle.

Brewing tomorrow so will take some pictures

[ajh800]

Scooby,

that looks effective, thanks for pics great stuff

[befuggled]

Some beautiful pictures and it will probably work very well.
I don't mean to be negative, but be aware that these dimmers are designed for resistive loads and a motor is not.
I could rabbit on about induction and synchronous motors, phase lag and slip angles, but that would bore you to death.
The motor windings may overheat due to the way the dimmer chops up the mains.
If you are set on using an electronic speed control, one designed for an electric drill would be more bomb-proof (although an electric drill is a different sort of motor).

Where possible, it is better to control the flow by constricting the pump output (not input) as shown in Scobby's pic of Oxford Brewers pump.

Having said all that, if it were me, I would probably suck-it-and-see

[haz66]

Can you give a few pointers as to where i could obtain an electric drill control thingy, i dont wanna fuuk my
pumps

[befuggled]

Hax66, if you are concerned about your pumps, then don't use electronic speed control at all, use the output throttling method.
When I referred to drill controllers, I meant that it would be the controller itself which would be more bomb-proof.
I have no specific knowledge of Toton pump motor windings overheating but I do have an idea about trying to run motors at below their rated voltage.

Although I don't use this type of pump myself, I have seen many others here who control the flow rate down to a dribble with a valve on the outlet.
I spent a considerable amount of time looking at the control of Speck pumps (24volts DC and a very different type of motor) and ended up doing everything with valves, re-circulating the mash tun and re-circulating cooling for the boiler.

On a much more positive note, once you can re-circulate the wort in the mash tun, you are only one step away from RIMS.

No more getting strike temperature dead right first time
No more concerns over temperature losses during mashing
Step Decoction mashes made easy
Ramp up to 77C for mashout
Sous Vide cookery!
Add underletting at the same time and no more smashing up the lumps with one hand while you heave in the grains with the other...

Go on, you know it makes sense!

See postings by Adm, Garysmiff etc if you have the urge

[Scooby]

I don't see the problem with controlling the flow by restriction and have managed it accurately with my Totton and March pumps

Are those really the most compelling reasons you can think of to for using rims

[befuggled]

Thanks for the confirmation on the Totton and March pumps Scooby.
I have looked at your new set-up with great interest, but I can't spot the heater anywhere!
And are you the only other person here doing re-circulating cooling a la mrmalty?

[Scooby]

I thought about it.....but only for a few seconds

My solution:

Circulate round a well insulated tun to preheat.
Experience and consistency leads to correct strike temp (I need a couple more brews).
Big mash paddle sorts the dry balls.
Pack the ullage with cellotex and air bags for minimal loss.
Don't bother with step mashes.
Use a WSM for long slow cooking.


Not sure about the re-circulating, I don't recall seeing any other examples.

BTW I cool to 80c and stop re-circulating for the steep hops, usually about 30mins, do you do that?
I'm sure I saw or read that some continue re-circulating during the steep, I wonder if the action extracts
more from the hops than just sitting there?

[befuggled]

WSM - different again and very tempting! - just got a bogo weber
I tried cold smoking salmon etc in an old 19" cabinet a couple of years ago
Tasted quite good but no keeping qualities

Like you, I cool to 80C and steep without re-circ, thinking that it might be better to disolve the volatiles and keep turbulence to a minimum while hot.
I would also lose temperature fairly quickly, just due to the external pipework and the static CFC, so after 30 mins it would be much lower than the 75C it usually is. Then cool as fast as possible to retain aroma oils.
(I then wait 30-60 mins after the 75-25C cool to ensure crystal clear wort with virtually no trub.)
But I also see the sense in agitating the hops during steep.....


Getting somewhat OT here, sorry Ajh800! - at least it is still mainly about pumps

[Scooby]

Yes, threads have a habit of developing a life of their own....still it's normally informative

The agitation is very gentle, I may try it next brew.

[ajh800]

That's fine befuggled, all interesting stuff and adds to the knowledge database. Interesting to get peoples views on the steeping process, just done two brews steeping at 80C. Anything to improve the final product is worth knowing.

Pump seemed to work okay, no over heating detected etc

Mmm... Fleming's left hand rule, inductance, back emf.... - vaugely remember it from my apprenticeship and hardly used it since, all a distant memory.......

[Scooby]

And are you the only other person here doing re-circulating cooling a la mrmalty?

Now I think about it I'm sure Myst' whirlpools.

[Gricey]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I'm up for some wort recirculation.

I want to buy a 50L MT so I can do some bigger brews, but I'll mostly be doing normal (read brews that fit in my 30L fermenter!) lengths. With that in mind, its likely the 'wort level' in my MT will vary from brew length to brew length.

Has anyone got an example of how they return the recirculated liquor back to the tun in such a way that it can cope with a different level? I see the one above (the H shape) needs to be sat under the wort level to return the wort gently. So just thinking about that...

Cheers
Gricey.

[crookedeyeboy]

I was thinking about doing this and I though maybe I could use the old copper manifold from my first small MT. Its just the usual figure of 8 copper tube with slits sliced into it. i think this would do the same job.