Types/categories of cleaner

[Kev888]

Hi All,

Just searching the threads here for info on soaking a copper cylinder in cleaner. It has made me realise I don't know much about cleaners at all- what the types are and what they're good/bad at cleaning, which products are which type, and which cleansers can be used with which common materials.

I seem to remember such a thread exists on sanitisers (though its not a sticky as I'd thought, and I can't find it to check the details). Is there something similar for cleaners that I'm also missing?

Cheers,
Kev

[tanglefoot]

Hi , I for a long time used to use various different powders like VWP , but know i have moved to using peracetic acid diluted to a 5% solution . You obviously need to use with caution and wear gloves etc but for me the big bonus is not having to keep rinsing out everything after sterilising . I am not sure on the effect of using it on Copper vessels though as i use stainless vessels to ferment and brew and Cornys to store .

[Kev888]

Thanks both.

Thats kind of what I thought really - I used Chempro for years and more recently Richies combined steriliser/cleaner; they work (whatever they are), but aren't cheap in beer-making volumes. Recently I discovered the joys of starsan for the sanitising side of things, so believe I can get away with something more economical for cleaning - I'm thinking of going to thin unscented bleach or possibly soda chrystals.

I guess I just wanted to know a bit more about whats what, rather than simply doing what other people do - mainly because so many people do so many things in so many permutations that a bit of knowledge of the basics would help choose between them all. For example what capabilities may make me choose an acid cleaner over bleach sometimes, or what actually is considered a low contact time for what cleaner in what type of concentration on what metal, and that type of thing. But maybe thats not the sort of thing you can get in a brief thread - perhaps its the study of a lifetime!

Cheers
kev

[Kev888]

Thanks - sounds fairly straight forward when you put it like that! On reflection I'm probably happier just going with what you experts say - the details sound like a bit of a minefield.

Okay I've stuck a 2L bottle of thin bleach in the copper cylinder, filled with (cold) water. Its around 100l so thats a rate of 1:50 bleach to water, but the bleach itself is probably only about 1% chlorine, so that should be 200ppm if my mental maths is working. I don't really know how long to leave it, but nothing terrible happened immediately, so I guess a few hours should do it.

There's nothing specific to get cleaned off but I'm turning it from a used cylinder to a HLT so feel like I should give it a decent initial clean.

Cheers,
Kev

EDIT: I realise that I'd got that wrong - I actually used my usual 2L to 50L bleach/water cleaning ratio, which for the cylinder meant using 2x 2L bottles. Good old Chris for stopping me soaking it!

[Kev888]

With soft metals contact times should be kept to a minimum. I sometimes clean copper items with a type of strong bleach (beer line cleaner) but I would keep contact times to less than 10 mins and rinse well.

Remember though, copper equipment used up stream of and including the boil process do not need sanitising so you aren't looking for a contact time long enough to kill any germs. Just make up a litre or so, get your cleaning cloth out and add a little elbow grease. Rinse well and rinse again. Allow to dry. Any dull oxide layer protects the copper to certain extent, it doesn't have to be shiney although you may find that the acidic nature of the wort will remove this layer during the boil and leave your vessel shiney, it wont do you or your beer any harm, it is metabolised by the yeast.

(very often the only thing I use to clean copper up stream of the boil is water as long as I haven't left any dirt to dry on it).

Hmm, well I'd best go and empty it soon then (there came the sound of rappidly pattering feet)...

Yes, i think when its in use as an HLT I'll follow your example and just rinse it out with water. Maybe give it a clean once a year or something, depending on how fast any deposits/scale builds up. I just wanted to give it a good clean before its first use, really.

Been searching around a bit more on this while it soaked - most of the posts I found are either yours or Graham's! I think generally the approach I'm going to try for the rest of my gear (which is mainly plastic or stainless) will be bleach to clean and either starsan or a thinner bleach to sanitise (depending on the rinse-ability of the application). For more stubborn crud I may use soda chrystals before the bleach, or invest in some beer line cleaner instead. But for my copper HLT very little of anything aside from tap water.

Thanks for all your help - invaluable.

Cheers
kev

[Aleman]

One thing I do each year to 'deep clean' my copper items, is to give it a soak in an acid solution . . . this strips off the oxide layer (and any 'green' staining) leaving clean copper behind. . . You don't need a strong acid . . . 5L of white vinegar (or 25L from a Chinese wholesalers) is available very cheaply, and all you need to do is wipe it over the copper . . or fill the copper and add the vinegar and leave to soak.

[Kev888]

One thing I do each year to 'deep clean' my copper items, is to give it a soak in an acid solution . . . this strips off the oxide layer (and any 'green' staining) leaving clean copper behind. . . You don't need a strong acid . . . 5L of white vinegar (or 25L from a Chinese wholesalers) is available very cheaply, and all you need to do is wipe it over the copper . . or fill the copper and add the vinegar and leave to soak.

Thats interesting, thanks. I'm not too concerned about it being shiny once I begin using it (its in a bright green foam lagging, so the aesthetics were shot from the start!) but if it was brought back to shinyness to begin with it would give me confidence that it was properly clean and ready for its new beery use.

Cheers,
Kev