Cold conditioning / lagering a belgian ale

[chivelegs]

Afternoon.

I made a rough approximation of a Duvel this weekend using 6kg of lager malt, Wyeast 1388 Belgian strong yeast and will be adding a kilo of sugar to the fermenter when the gravity is a bit lower (about 1020 or so)

I'm planning on keeping this a while to fully clear out and was wondering if anyone has successfully brewed something similar and if so did they just leave it at a low-ish temperature (my cellar is about 14C) or fully lager it? I have no way of getting low lagering temperatures other than putting it in a shed outside, so would this be a bad idea.
Finally, should lagering be done in a fully closed container or air-locked?

Ta,

Tom

[HighHops]

Westvleteren is lagered at 10C until it's dropped bright (1-2 months), but Duvel is lagered for 3 weeks below freezing.
I lager my lager in the shed in a closed container.

[sam c]

hi

ive been wondering about this aswell but with a black lager. not dropping it bright but what to larger it in. i dont really want to put it in a cornie for ages to lager. i was wondering if i could just leave it in secondary for a month or so with just an airlock on before kegging?

[chivelegs]

thanks highhops, I've got an empty keg doing very little at the moment so a month or so in the cellar to wait for the temperature to get below freezing then out into the shed it goes.

[chivelegs]

OK then, Hop-Pickers!

It's down now to 1010, but stubbornly refusing to drop any more despite raising the temperature to 27. Any ideas how to drop it to nearer the 1002 mark as per Duvel?

I've seen suggestions of using champagne yeast, but opinions seem to be divided as to whether that will make it far too dry.

[Frothy]

Interesting thread, be keen to know how it turns out! Have been reading brew like a monk recently and it's some intriguing stuff, lagering ales
It depends on the yeast strain but I believe that fermenting under 9 degrees centigrade classifies as lagering (legally for mass produced lagers anyways) and we're well under 10 outside at the moment.

how about adding dry beer enzyme? available off the shelf

Frothy

[chivelegs]

how about adding dry beer enzyme? available off the shelf

Frothy

And only 60p a pop! I've got some yeast nutrient at home, would it be a problem to add that, as there are no HBS's that L to me!

[bosium]

Any ideas how to drop it to nearer the 1002 mark as per Duvel?

I don't have my copy of brew like a monk to hand, but I'm fairly certain that duvel does not get all the way down to 1.002!
I thought it was about 1.007 but even so, 1.010 is pretty good going. What was the OG?

How does it taste? If it tastes good (and is clear), then I'd not worry about it. Just bottle / keg it to a high level of carbonation (use *thick* bottles) and enjoy!

Also, worth mentioning that 1388 is a very poor flocculator. It stays in suspension for ages and will probably still drop a point or two before eventually settling out.

[chivelegs]

OG was 1055 going in to primary but this was boosted by a kilo of White sugar after a week. I guess 1010 is pretty good and it'll be at least 6weeks before bottling so plenty of time to drop a bit more. 'Brew Like A Monk' doesn't give a FG but quotes 93% attenuation from 1069 OG.
Taste-wise it's still a bit fruity at the moment but that's definitely fading into the background.

[Manx Guy]

Hi!

1010 does sound pretty good attenuation to me... I doubt that Duvel gets as low as 1002 - 1007 sounds more like it...
Logic suggests that a beer that finished at 1002 would be very thin and morelike wine than beer - something that cant be said about duvel - although it is quite light for its strength!

I'm looking forward to trying some AG belgian brews fairly soon ( I did a rough approximation of a belgian bruin using extract last winter) - although my first attempt will probably be a Blonde in the spring... I have a recipe for a 1061 all malt blonde called UXB! ( I got it from an Aussie HB website) Its combination of belgian malts , saaz and NZ hallertau sounds absolutely mouth watering!

Let us know how your brew turns out!

Guy

[lancsSteve]

From the couple of Belgian's I've done which got favourable reviews at CBA National (rated very good) and helping my bro-in-law with a duvel clone (BIAB - link in signature) here's a few tip and thoughts:

1 - bottle it, belgian's are bottled beers not keg beers and improve with age
2 - before bottling reculture some more yeast and add that as a starter along with the priming sugar - the yeast you've used in primary will be pretty spent and to get the kind of carbonation youn want in a belgian it benefits a LOT from adding some fresh yeast for bottling
3 - patience: my bro-in-law's Duvel went 1070 > 1040 in a week, slowed down so given a good rousing, down to 1020 in another week, then took 2 more weeks to crawl further but eventaully hit 1.002! (Recultured yeast from bottle) so you might want to wait a little longer or drop it into secondary now and leave it under airlock to condition and slowly ferment out a while before bottling.
4 - Cool conditioning is good, lagering not essential - practices vary a lot. Super cold lagering like Duvel do will be more for clarity than flavour and that clarity will come with time.
5 - don't sweat it or stress - age will improve it all.
6 - be inspired by a Belgian beer don't try and copy it, that's just not Belgian!
7 - Some residual sweetness is characteristic for a lot of belgian beers, should be light bodied and well carbonated but don't have to be super dry.

[bosium]

+1 to everything Lancs_Steve said - especially about bottle conditioning with a bit of fresh yeast.
That's the Belgian way and it definitely adds a character to the beer.

[chivelegs]

Excellent. it's still in secondary cold conditioning in the cellar at about 13-14 degrees so I'll leave it a while longer. Got a packet of Safbrew T-58 which I'm planning on using to add before bottling. Is it best to add this with the priming sugar or before?

[dedken]

I have some packets of dry beer enzyme - if you want one or two, feel free to drop round.

[chivelegs]

I obviously haven't checked the cellar temperature since the cold spell. Now down to 10 degrees, so I'm not going to bother lagering. Hasn't gone down too much since I last checked, about 1009 but tastes pretty damn good as the fruity banana seems to have diminished enormously. It's still there if you look for it, but nowhere near as obvious as before.

Really clearing out nicely colour-wise unlike the experimental 4l batch I added Saffron and lemongrass to. That's been left in the cold now in the conservatory / shack out the back.