Old Rambler 22/04

[Vossy1]

Hoping for 80% efficiency, and adjusted malt to suit.

46ltr batch

14.51kg Marris Otter
280g Black Malt
Mash liquor 45ltr
Mash at 67 deg c for 120 min

156g EKG (5.6%AA) Bittering (120 min)
31.5g Aroma (last 15 min)
10g Irish moss (last 15 min)
Boil for 120 min

Target OG 1070
Target FG 1014
Target IBU 51
Original recipe target IBU 35

In the FV now.

Only achieved 41.5 ltr instead of the target 46ltr
Got an OG of 1070 which was good.

When I started to cool the wort I had 49ltr in the copper yet somehow lost 7.5ltr of volume somewhere
Either that or my buckets aren't properly calibrated...that's a lot to lose

Had some trouble with my false bottom from the Hop and Grape, at least I though I did....turns out it's been virtually destroyed...photo to follow.

[Vossy1]

This is the false bottom from my mash tun

As you can see it's collapsed. When I had this made I asked for a centre leg as I thought the FB was too week without one.

It seems to me that it needs more legs around the circumfrence, or it needs reinforcing

[Vossy1]

Very not happy DaaB

Luckily my pump crunched it's way throught the grain that entered it, otherwise with a grain load like that I'd have lost £15.

I think a heavier gauge mesh would be ness also.

I was only operating the pump at a trickle as well.

[UserDeleted]

I've always thought that having such a large gap under the mash was a bad idea. What I did, was to have a central hole in the FB with a right angle 1/2" to 15mm connector going to the tap that meant that I had to fit the FB first (with the legs being cut down to 3/4") then the Kettle element (my first 60L tun was a converted 60L boiler ). I found that it was not possible to fit the false bottom with the kettle element in place. Others that use the same screen have supported it with Nylon bolts around the circumference. however all the methods I've seen to use that screen have involved having very short legs under it.

Edit :- I didn't realise that you were pumping direct from the mash. That can cause a great deal of suction on a FB, even at very low pump rates.

[Vossy1]

Thanks DaaB.

I'll see what John at H&G says tomorrow.

Tha legs are as long as they are, so the manifold clears the tap outlet.
I didn't ask for this, it's just how they're made by John.

When recycling the wort using the pump it's at but a trickle, but obviously that's still too much.


The alternative you've shown looks interesting and negates the need for the FB to be above the tap outlet

It also gets rid of the 5ltr of deadspace I have in my tun with this FB

[prolix]

Thats a shame about the bottom, the pumping no matter how slow will put immense pressure on the bottom remember the air above would crush with the weight of 8 minis but for the pressure beneath, you took that pressure out and as fluid has next to no compression or expansion with pressure, something has to give.

Glad the brew was not lost.

[SteveD]

Sorry to see it was a difficult day, but the beer looks great! I've used both false bottoms and copper manifolds and find the manifold works just as well, plus it won't give a fig what the pressure is!

[Vossy1]

well, I've just spoken to John at the Hop & Grape and he's never seen one of his false bottoms fail in this way, and he's sold over 300

It looks like the issue may be with my pump or with the size of the grain crush, both of which I'll have to look into.

My flow rate was set to 2ltr per min but it looks like this may still be too great.

In the meantime I've ordered some extra legs to reinforce the FB, and I'll take it from there.

[Vossy1]

Who crushed the grains?

I bought the sack and the grains were pre crushed.

I asked the Homebrew shop stockport for any info they might have with regards to the crush size.

The grain is from Thos Fawcett and sons maltsters and the info is
1 deg Kilo - 297-307.2 dry basis...which means nowt to the likes of me.

I don't know whether I'll be able to straighten this one out, as it's too springy, which in my mind means it's too thin!

John also said that if I did re-inforce it and the FB didn't give way then my mash would compact due to the pump.

I'm not too sure about that, though it is possible.

I looked into getting some perforated sheet prior to buying this FB. The problem was amount and postage.

[Vossy1]

If it were me, i'd scrap the H&G false bottom, they don't seem to be able to cope with a pumped system.

I've been looking into alternatives for the last 2 days and it aint easy!

The U.S version may be the easiest option at the mo.

Why are FB's made from circular perforations when the norm for malt is slots

[Vossy1]

Thanks for all the help so far DaaB
As usual I'm leaving no stone unturned in looking for a soln to this prob

If we forget cost implications, I'm thinking a pleated type filter would have a much greater surface area than a flat bed....

I've also looked into perforated ss tube which can be had quite reasonably on e-bay, and this would also have a greater sa, though it would be a bugger to work

Any ideas

John at the H&G suggested a hop back type arrangement, pumping the gravity fed reserve as opposed to the mash direct.

All I see is heat loss in this system, and more complication.

This is rapidly turning into a equipment thread

[Gurgeh]

Marbles

Get rid of the legs (or perhaps not) and sit your false bottom on a load of marbles.
Works for me

cuts down on ullage too.

[Vossy1]

Cheers DaaB & G

G, If that's not a wind up, it's so simply ingenius and cheap it's ridiculous
Means I'll have to mod for a top feed like DaaB's plate FB, but that's not a prob.

Hmmmm

[SteveD]

I take you have a magnetically coupled pump? Have you hooked up a ball valve or other valve to the output side? That way you can control the flow very precisely. Mag pumps are designed to allow flow restriction in that way. Incidentally it doesn't work properly if you restrict the input side.

Also, when you're running off, do you keep the bed floating or allow it to compact down by running off before starting the sparge? With a pump I'd try and keep the bed floating if possible.

[Vossy1]

Hi Steve, The pump is a mag coupled jobby and the outlet is restricted with a ball valve.

I start the recirculation VERY slowly at first, upping to 2ltr/min in stages over the next 5 minutes or so. Even so the grain bed does conpact slightly.

When I'm running off I do so by gravity. The liquor level is maintained at about 2cm over the bed, however as said before the bed is already slightly compacted at this time from the recirc.